I hit rock bottom, everyone thought I had it all

Written By Matthew Carland

"How rock bottom do you have to let me hit before you actually help me?"

Brad’s words hung in the air for a while after we wrapped. They were all too familiar in this industry. That moment where you realise you’ve been carrying it all, quietly hoping someone will notice, and then getting angry when they don’t. We sat with Brad McEwan again, a regular on the podcast, and this chat went straight past the surface stuff and into the parts most people keep hidden.

From the outside, Brad looks like the guy who’s got it sorted. Business moving, family there, good people around him. But he spoke honestly about what was happening underneath, and how quickly “I’m fine” can turn into snapping at work, shutting down at home, and feeling like you’re watching yourself unravel in slow motion. In building, we’re trained to push through, solve it, work harder, and keep it moving. The problem is that approach works right up until it doesn’t, and then the cost is way bigger than a sore back or a rough week.

A big part of Brad’s turning point was realising that grit without communication is a fast track to isolation. When you don’t have the words for what’s going on, or you don’t feel safe saying it, everything gets louder. Stress shows up in your relationships, your patience, your sleep, your confidence, and suddenly you’re reacting to everyone around you while telling yourself you should be able to handle it. He talked through what helped, including getting proper psychological support and learning tools that actually worked in real life, not just in theory.

This episode also messes with the usual definition of “tough”. Asking for help before you hit the floor, making changes even when it feels embarrassing, and being honest about what you can and can’t carry anymore. At one point, the reminder was simple and it landed hard: you’re allowed to feel shit. It’s not a permission slip to stay stuck, but it’s more a starting point to do something different.

Then there’s the future bit. What happens after rock bottom, when you’re back on your feet, but you don’t want to build the same life again. Brad shared what it looks like to step back, reconnect with what matters, and make space for things outside the grind so work doesn’t become the only place you feel useful. Because mental health and career satisfaction are tied together, whether we like it or not, and balance is not a fluffy concept when your whole system is running on empty.

If this conversation sparks anything for you, take it seriously. Check in with someone. Say the thing out loud. Get support before you’re forced into it. Looking after yourself is not a detour from success; it’s the only way it lasts.

LINKS:

Our Sponsors:

Pro Clima - https://mindful-builder.captivate.fm/proclima

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Connect with us on Instagram: @themindfulbuilderpod

Connect with Hamish:

Instagram:  @sanctumhomes

Website:  www.yoursanctum.com.au/

Connect with Matt: 

Instagram: @carlandconstructions

Website: www.carlandconstructions.com/

  • [00:00:00] Matt: Another episode today, Mindful Builder Podcast. Um, coming to you from the Pro Clima Studios, major sponsor of the podcast. Um, love working with them, to be honest with you. 

    [00:00:10] Hamish: And Brad works with them as well. 

    [00:00:11] Matt: Yeah. 

    [00:00:12] Hamish: So it's not as if we're just like virtue 

    [00:00:13] Matt: signaling with Pro Clima guys. I was actually saying to someone the other day, um, they'll...

    [00:00:17] Yeah, Brad's with us. Brad's here. Brad's here. So we've got Brad, uh, on with us for a few episodes today. I was saying to someone last week about Pro Clima, and it was a, it was an architect maybe, and it's what you see is what you get from the back ender side of things, where they're just like this family orientated business.

    [00:00:32] Hamish: Yep. 

    [00:00:33] Matt: Um, not that I was surprised when we started work with them, more so from behind the scenes, but yeah, what you see is really what you get. 

    [00:00:41] Hamish: I wouldn't actually be surprised if Gus asked to join our family. 

    [00:00:44] Matt: I know. 

    [00:00:44] Hamish: Like, he does message us a lot. 

    [00:00:46] Matt: So Gus the other day, uh, so Gus is communications manager at Pro Clima, Brazilian, and he's being a bit of cheeky to me.

    [00:00:54] So on, someone on one of my comments on Instagram asked a Pro Clima question, and it [00:01:00] was just after Brazil lost in the World Cup, and I was like, "Oh, maybe you should reach out to Gus, but hey, he's been crying a bit at the moment, so hold off a few days." So, uh, I was, uh, getting stuck into him. But today we have, we're, we're doing a lot of our filming now from the Wilderness Build Co.

    [00:01:13] with Kai's business, just because it's central for all of us. But today we have Brad on. Um, topics, how do I describe today's topic? 

    [00:01:22] Hamish: So Brad and, and myself and Matt and a few of the other people that we sort of chat with a lot have, um, you know, we talk a lot really openly, really vulnerably about like whatever's going on in our lives.

    [00:01:32] And I think, um, we always wanted to get Brad in to talk building science and just good building and all that kind of stuff, but he did say that he'd love to come on and talk about experience as a builder in the past couple of years. And, um, I actually reckon this one's probably going to get pretty heavy, because I know some of the shit that you've gone through over the last couple of years and, um, so there, uh, I don't know, could be some tears, could be some cuddles.

    [00:01:58] That's what we're here for. Um, [00:02:00] and I know that, you know, Brad's certainly been someone that I've, you know, talked to over the years when I've had shit going on, he's always been there, and I kn- I, I'd like to think that, you know, me and Matt have probably been that pillar for him as well. Because I know the last couple of years have been pretty shitty for you, Brad.

    [00:02:13] Matt: Is it be fair to say that what you see sometimes is not what you get? 

    [00:02:17] Brad: Yeah. 

    [00:02:19] Matt: And do you want to elaborate on that? 

    [00:02:22] Hamish: Let's go back. Let's just, te- tell us where this all started. I mean, 'cause- 

    [00:02:25] Matt: That's why, that's why I sort of, yeah, 

    [00:02:26] Brad: I was using it as 

    [00:02:27] Hamish: a- Yeah. 

    [00:02:28] Brad: Yeah, I think we had a chat back in the day when yous first started, um, about sort of my pathway and, you know, whatever else.

    [00:02:42] And I knew, obviously I'm... Fuck, I've never been so nervous for a podcast before. Um, I knew early on that I struggled with s- something, which I guess that turned out to be, you know, stress and anxiety or whatever. [00:03:00] Um, and it was obviously amplified heavily the more I got into, the more I got into my career.

    [00:03:07] Um, it was probably 2016-ish, after I bought my first house, that I sorta had my first real fucking downward spiral. I went from having a heap of disposable income and zero responsibilities to, "Holy shit, now I've, uh, done this thing that I'm responsible for." Um, and it sort of, yeah, that hit me for six a little bit.

    [00:03:39] I wasn't really expecting it to, to be that way. Um, everything had always been hard anyway, but I just figured that in business, you know, it's, it's meant to be hard and, and that's what it is, and sorta just wrote it off as, you know, this is, this is [00:04:00] normal. And, um- Were you told what normal was meant to look like?

    [00:04:04] Or was it a normal perception that you had yourself? Uh, the- The experiences that I had early on in the trades was definitely very different from the world that I'm fortunate enough to operate in now. Um, you know, everything was hard. You worked hard. You know, like physically we worked so hard as an apprentice.

    [00:04:35] Um, Joe, my old boss, is, you know, one of the closest people in my life now. Like, they're legitimately like family to me. Um, you know, he is a great mate, but at the time he was also a great role model and the only role model I had. And basically when shit fucking hit the fan, [00:05:00] we just fucking worked hard and, and sorted out the issue.

    [00:05:05] You know, "Oh, shit, someone hasn't paid you. Let's take on another job and fucking flog ourselves till we get paid," and that, that solves that problem, you know? It was always hard, but that sheer strength and resilience in that way was what always solved those problems. 

    [00:05:23] Matt: But there's always an, there's always an out, if that makes sense.

    [00:05:27] Brad: Yeah. 

    [00:05:27] Matt: There's always a solution. 

    [00:05:28] Brad: Yeah, and but the solution was just sacrifice yourself and go to work and punish yourself physically. 

    [00:05:34] Matt: Do, do you mean... When you say punish yourself, do you mean just by the sheer hours or doing stupid work that was dangerous? All of 

    [00:05:41] Brad: it. What- By any means necessary, get fucking paid.

    [00:05:46] That was, that was how, that was how I operated. That was the example that was set to me, and I knew no different. And the opposite side of that [00:06:00] was like, "Fuck, now we've got money. Let's have fun. Let's do cool shit." You know? Awesome. And so I just rode that fucking wave- For a long time because that's all I knew, was here's a problem, the best way to fix it is just fucking knuckle down and fucking get after it.

    [00:06:19] Head 

    [00:06:19] Matt: down, bum up. 

    [00:06:20] Brad: Yeah. And so after I bought my house, like I had never... I was living at home with my parents, and I was literally like fucking booking trips to America for like six, seven weeks a year, sending my apprentice to go work for someone else and like just fucking off and like living like a king.

    [00:06:36] It was the best. Like, it was honestly like the absolute glory days. And 

    [00:06:39] Matt: this, you were at this point single. 

    [00:06:42] Brad: Wife wasn't part of the- So I met Erica in... She's gonna fucking bash me for not remembering the year. Nah, two, must've been 2016, I reckon. So like I met her about six months before I bought my first house.

    [00:06:59] Yeah, okay. [00:07:00] Um, and yeah, so I had this crazy disposable income, you know, worked hard. Obviously, you know, all the challenges with having your own small business or whatever were still there, but when you've got no fucking bills and you're making adult money, it, the problems are easy to ignore. 

    [00:07:23] Hamish: Yeah. 

    [00:07:23] Brad: You 

    [00:07:23] Matt: know?

    [00:07:23] Don't we see that in like AFL right now? Isn't it like a 19-year-old, 18-year-old- Totally ... walks into an AFL club earning huge cash, and what do you do with it? We're n- not taught at school how to use money. 

    [00:07:34] Hamish: Oh, you, you... Sorry to, to, to, to interrupt for a sec. When you say problems, are you talking about like actually like problems, um, outside of work, like mentally?

    [00:07:42] Like, are they the problems that you're talking about? Because you say you- No ... you just ignored the problems. 

    [00:07:46] Brad: Yeah, so like, you know, um- If someone didn't pay an invoice, it wasn't the end of the fucking world. Yeah, okay. I had that much disposable income. Like, I wasn't paying a mortgage. Mm. Yeah. I didn't have [00:08:00] a family to support.

    [00:08:01] Okay. 

    [00:08:01] Hamish: Yep, yep. 

    [00:08:01] Brad: You know? I getcha. I getcha. All these things weren't there. And then when I bought the house, I was like, "Shit, now I got bills to pay." Yeah. And I had no idea, y- you know, whether I could afford it or not. 

    [00:08:16] Hamish: Yep. 

    [00:08:16] Brad: Obviously, you know, I knew- Amazing ... that I had money- Yeah ... but I'd never s- I had never... I tell you, I had never worked out a personal budget for us until maybe six months ago.

    [00:08:27] Matt: So on that, at that point in time, there was no- ... banking restrictions really. If you wanted a credit card, you call one up, they'd send one out. If you want a loan, you just get one. 

    [00:08:35] Brad: I mean, it was- It's a little bit more than that ... being single and self-employed, and doing the most that you can to minimize tax, getting a bank loan's- Yeah

    [00:08:44] fucking not easy. Yeah. 

    [00:08:45] Matt: Yeah. 

    [00:08:46] Brad: Um, you know, but the solution was just- Work ... work your absolute fucking ring off and save a whopping house deposit. 

    [00:08:55] Matt: Yeah. 

    [00:08:55] Brad: And get it done, and that's, I had always operated that way. If I want [00:09:00] something, I just go to work. It was one of the first things that I loved about being a trade.

    [00:09:04] I want more money, I just work harder, I get more money. Happy days. Yeah. And it worked for a, a really fucking long time. Like, when I bought the house, I was like, "Shit, I need money now." I actually worked, I might have mentioned this previously, I worked 72 days in a row. 72 

    [00:09:22] Hamish: days in a row. And, and, and on the 

    [00:09:24] Brad: tools as well And I stopped on the tools Yeah This is, uh, purely as a carpenter.

    [00:09:28] And like long hours, like 10-hour days, and I only stopped because I had a friend's wedding, otherwise I probably would've kept going. That was the only reason that made me not work. And at the end of it, I had heaps of money obviously, but I was f- fucking drilled, you know? Physically absolutely fucking smoked.

    [00:09:53] I was struggling to have a conversation with anyone. Like, I just was absolutely annihilated. And [00:10:00] it caused a lot of problems in my relationship with Erica. Um- 

    [00:10:06] Matt: Early on 

    [00:10:07] Brad: Yeah. This was, we'd probably been together for maybe six, eight- 

    [00:10:12] Matt: Yep ... 

    [00:10:12] Brad: nine months or whatever. She had just moved into my house. Um, no, hadn't, no, no, she hadn't moved in, but she was staying over a lot.

    [00:10:20] Yeah, yeah. She was staying over a lot. Um, and there was, yeah, like a lot of conflict there because, you know, I'd get home from work and I, I'm f- fucking toast. Like- And go to bed. It's physical. People don't realize it. Yeah. But like I'm getting home thinking, "Fuck, I don't want to talk to anyone," and she's there and she's like, "I want to be engaged."

    [00:10:47] Yeah And it's like, so we're just like clashing. Um, and it was really fucking, it was really hard. Um, I went to America, um, which is, [00:11:00] you know, that's the place that has always been, you know, what genuinely feels like home, I guess. Um, you know, I've got a, I've nearly got like a whole life over there, like, and at that point in my life I legitimately did.

    [00:11:16] I had an American phone, I had an American wallet with money in it all the time. Like, when I wanted to go I just fucking went. You know, um, and I got very close to, to moving there permanently before I met Erica anyway. Um, I went to America and I remember sitting on the dock at my mate's place, which is normally like, "Fuck, this is the best."

    [00:11:41] You know, like I'm on a private lake in Georgia at a lake house. There's a wakeboard boat there, and I just was like fucking empty. I was like... 

    [00:11:51] Hamish: Was this after your 72 days straight? And, and, and was the- Yeah ... break of, was d- was the break you going over to America for this wedding? 

    [00:11:59] Brad: [00:12:00] No, the wedding was here in Australia.

    [00:12:01] Hamish: Yep. 

    [00:12:02] Brad: Um, I just went to America 'cause that's what I did every year at that- 

    [00:12:05] Hamish: Yeah, okay, cool ... at that 

    [00:12:06] Matt: time. So you'd work your ass off and reward yourself with partying practically. 

    [00:12:11] Brad: Yeah. 

    [00:12:13] Hamish: Great. 

    [00:12:13] Matt: Yeah. 

    [00:12:13] Hamish: We've, I mean, we've all been there. 

    [00:12:15] Matt: Yeah, but to, but to, but to another level though. It's not just like work all week on a Friday, Monday to Friday, go out your Friday, Saturday, Sunday, recover.

    [00:12:23] Like, you, you're, you're- 

    [00:12:25] Brad: You're balls to the wall. 

    [00:12:26] Matt: Yeah, yeah, yeah. You, 

    [00:12:26] Brad: you- Yeah, I was balls to the wall. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I was like work as hard as humanly possible and then, you know, go and enjoy the fruits of your labor. 

    [00:12:37] Matt: And I think we need to distinguish here that as a trade, I don't think people understand the, the, the pressure you put on your body, and I think that, um, being a physical labor intensive job absolutely smokes your body.

    [00:12:55] And I now look back at when I was like f- dad, dad's a electrician [00:13:00] by trade. He'd be on the tools and, I dunno, you, you're five or six and he comes home and you're like, "Let's kick the footy," and he just wants to sit on the couch. And you're like, "What do you mean?" I now get it. 

    [00:13:08] Hamish: I think, like, that physicality is what attracted me to being a chippy.

    [00:13:14] Like, 'cause I, 'cause I'm, I'm, you know- classic ADHD, can't sit fucking still. And just the fact that you get to work, you're wearing a tool belt and you're going all day, like I loved that. 

    [00:13:26] Brad: Yeah, it's the only part I actually enjoyed too. Oh, yeah. I think- Fucking 

    [00:13:29] Hamish: loved it ... 

    [00:13:29] Brad: I think the difference, and I say this now retrospectively looking back, you know, I've had, we'll get into it a bit more later, but the last few months to really reflect- 

    [00:13:40] Hamish: Yeah

    [00:13:40] Brad: on the last decade of, of my life and like how I got, how I got to here. But we wore it as a badge of honor. 

    [00:13:49] Hamish: Yeah. Definitely. 

    [00:13:50] Brad: You know, like I did my time with a fucking hardcore wog. It was, yeah, [00:14:00] like, "We are working fucking hard," like that was what was drummed into him. Yeah. You work, work, work, work, work. You know, and he said to me multiple times, you know, his father worked his ring off, and on his dad's death bed, his dad said to him, "I fucking wish I didn't work as much."

    [00:14:16] Matt: Yeah. 

    [00:14:17] Brad: You know? But that's what, that's what was drummed into h- him, and it wasn't drummed into me, but that, you know what I mean? That's just how we operated. 

    [00:14:26] Hamish: I mean, I th- I think it's a conversation for another time, but I, I kind of almost feel like it's like gone too far the other way now. Yeah. 

    [00:14:32] Brad: Yeah. I'm not gonna comment.

    [00:14:34] Hamish: Yeah. No, no, let's, let's not go there. But yeah, yeah. 

    [00:14:36] Brad: Um, anyway, so I came back from that trip. Me and Erika split up. Um, I just was like a fucking shell of a human. Um- So 

    [00:14:48] Hamish: you were depressed? 

    [00:14:49] Brad: Yeah. 

    [00:14:49] Matt: Yeah. 

    [00:14:50] Brad: Yeah. Which at the time- Were you diagnosed 

    [00:14:51] Matt: at that point, or you just, now you 

    [00:14:53] Brad: look back- No ... you've recognized it?

    [00:14:54] At that, at that point I wasn't, and I just had the mentality that [00:15:00] this is hard because it's hard. If it was easy, everyone would do it. 

    [00:15:03] Hamish: Yeah, okay. 

    [00:15:04] Matt: Hard is normal. 

    [00:15:06] Brad: Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, I just was like, "Well, this is part and parcel like of, of, of what I'm doing." 

    [00:15:13] Matt: Yep. 

    [00:15:13] Brad: Um, I didn't know that I was depressed at the time.

    [00:15:18] I knew I really struggled with, you know, stress and like at, at that point in my life, the anxiety was like I had a fucking bad temper, like a really fucking, a horrible temper. I would smash shit, break stuff, you know, like, um- 

    [00:15:35] Matt: Just within yourself, like i- in your private time or like- 

    [00:15:38] Brad: Oh, no, fuck no. I'd tear off at work.

    [00:15:41] Matt: At someone or more just 

    [00:15:42] Brad: within yourself? Oh, depend who- 

    [00:15:43] Matt: Yeah ... 

    [00:15:43] Brad: who was the fucking straw that broke the camel's back. Okay. But like I've thrown a brick through a builder's window

    [00:15:53] Like full scale Over what? 

    [00:15:54] Matt: Just to give context 

    [00:15:56] Brad: Uh, I had a brand new car. It was my first brand new car. It [00:16:00] was fucking probably on its first tank of fuel. It was parked in the driveway on the job site. They were getting a brick delivery. I was just framing at the time. I was on the roof. He's like, "Can you move your car?"

    [00:16:11] I was like, "I'm not getting down." I threw him the keys. He moved my car. They moved all the temporary fence panels and lent them up out of the way, and the wind blew them straight onto my car, and I just heard this thud. I looked over, there's my first brand new car I've ever bought, it's literally fucking four days old.

    [00:16:29] I fucking... When I say nought to 100, it probably wasn't even nought to 100, it was nought to 1,000. I fucking lost it, and I just fucking got down and got to the front of the job, and there was bricks and there was a window and fuck. 

    [00:16:42] Matt: What happened? 

    [00:16:44] Brad: He shit himself. He left. He thought I was going to kill him, which I was running down the driveway screaming, "I'm going to fuck you up" Did he pay you to fix your car?

    [00:16:50] No. No. We moved the temporary fence panels. There was one tiny little scratch buffed out. Um, but you know, I w- I wasn't in a- I shouldn't 

    [00:16:58] Hamish: be laughing at this. [00:17:00] Like, I shouldn't be laughing. He's, but he's... I, I reckon, I reckon your story- 

    [00:17:03] Brad: The crazy thing is, is that, like, I've got so many stories through that first maybe six, seven years of self-employment that at the time I, I laughed at and now I look at it in a complete different light where it's like, fuck, I was really in an unhealthy way.

    [00:17:22] Mm. 

    [00:17:22] Matt: Is there one moment that... Is there one story or one moment that you just instantly comes to your brain on that? 

    [00:17:30] Hamish: Like where you ne- you needed to make a change? 

    [00:17:31] Matt: Yeah. Is there just one mo- Now, now, now looking back now, is there one story and you're like, "Whoa"? 

    [00:17:38] Hamish: I think throwing a brick through a builder's- Oh, 

    [00:17:39] Brad: throwing hammers at people 

    [00:17:42] Matt: Are you proud of it?

    [00:17:44] Hamish: Um, like- 

    [00:17:45] Matt: Or were you proud of, were you proud of it, I should ask? 

    [00:17:48] Brad: So for context, two people have had a hammer thrown at them. One was a crane operator who nearly threw me off a double story roof loading trusses. 

    [00:17:56] Matt: Okay. 

    [00:17:57] Brad: Right? And I was like- 

    [00:17:58] Matt: Fair point ... 

    [00:17:59] Brad: he shouldn't have been [00:18:00] operating a crane. 

    [00:18:00] Matt: Yeah. 

    [00:18:01] Brad: The second one dropped a live load of trusses into a scissor lift that I was in.

    [00:18:07] So both of them- Probably deserved it ... I thought were fairly justified, but- Yeah, I'd say that ... had, had said hammers have hit people- Yeah ... we'd probably not sitting here having this conversation. 

    [00:18:20] Matt: Yeah. 

    [00:18:20] Brad: So- Yeah, well- ... in the heat of the moment, I didn't give a shit about what I did, but looking back at it now, you know, yeah, that's not happening.

    [00:18:31] From what 

    [00:18:31] Matt: you say, I don't think they're unwarranted moments of- 

    [00:18:34] Brad: Yeah, but like- ... 

    [00:18:34] Matt: rage ... 

    [00:18:35] Brad: if you're, if you're operating in that way, y- you should be able to remain calm enough that that's not your first reaction. 

    [00:18:45] Hamish: So- 

    [00:18:45] Matt: Oh, I think that's super hard. You, 

    [00:18:48] Hamish: you're fight or f- Yeah, I, I'm gonna- ... fight or flight ... I'm probably gonna disagree for a second, and, and I, I can only speak from my experience on this.

    [00:18:54] So it's pretty well known that I've been seeing a psych for the last 13 or 14 years, and I pretty much, p- [00:19:00] probably like you, Brad, I'm diagnosed anxiety disorder. And my psychiatrist drew, psychologist, sorry, drew, uh, uh, like a, a graph. 

    [00:19:10] Matt: Yeah. 

    [00:19:10] Hamish: And you've got a vertical axis and a horizontal axis- Yeah ... and you've got time- Yeah

    [00:19:14] and then you've got pressure or anxiety. Yeah. And then you've got this normal line that kind of runs through at a point. 

    [00:19:20] Matt: Yeah. 

    [00:19:21] Hamish: Now, generally, most people kind of, you know, go up and down over time- Yeah, yeah ... with stress and anxiety, stress, anxiety. What I found for me is I used to go up above that normal line.

    [00:19:31] Matt: Yeah. 

    [00:19:31] Hamish: Right? Up above that normal line, up above that normal line, and this is when I'd start to spiral. And then what happens is your new normal goes up higher- 

    [00:19:40] Matt: Yeah, okay ... 

    [00:19:40] Hamish: which is outside of an unhealthy level of anxiety, and it sounds as if you were at that point as well. So if you think about it, you might operate here, but you're operating higher than what you might operate 

    [00:19:53] Matt: at.

    [00:19:53] You're just on, you're on, you're on a normal rollercoaster, and then you go to the bigger rollercoaster, and then you're on the bigger rollercoaster, and you 

    [00:19:57] Hamish: just keep- Absolutely ... yeah. And then all of a sudden, you've always [00:20:00] got this level of cortisol within your body that all it takes is one of those moments, 'cause you're already operating at a higher level of cortisol, to just spike, and it just sends you away.

    [00:20:10] Matt: And you're at this age 23 to 25, roughly? 

    [00:20:13] Brad: Yeah, I was probably like, yeah. 

    [00:20:15] Matt: Yeah, you're young. Like- So you're also- Late 20s ... you're also young, immature, lack of life experience. 

    [00:20:20] Brad: Yeah. And, and the justification to me was, they're a dumb fuck. That's why I flew off the fucking handle, you know? But I didn't realize how much damage being in that state of mind constantly was, was doing to me, like what long-term effect it was- 

    [00:20:39] Matt: What have you realized it's done?

    [00:20:42] Brad: Um, I just like, you know, p- people have said, you know, um, 'cause I used to be like obviously pretty like footloose and fancy free and whatever and, you know, people are like, "Oh," you know, "B-Rad's dead." You know? Like that [00:21:00] person's- 

    [00:21:00] Hamish: Don't you have a t- tattoo that says, "Live sideways"? 

    [00:21:02] Brad: Yeah. 

    [00:21:02] Hamish: Yeah. 

    [00:21:03] Brad: Yeah. Um, and yeah, it's like Yeah, I've got older and, you know, whatever.

    [00:21:11] But, you know, now, like I said, retrospectively looking back, it's like the... You know, uh, there's been a lot of things that have happened that slowly make you withdraw from stuff, and it's like incrementally, like, you know, bit by bit by bit by bit, you know? And you lose that zest for life, you know, that I used to have, you know?

    [00:21:38] And so yeah, I didn't, I didn't think at the time that that was happening. I was just like, "Well, I'm just getting older," you know? 

    [00:21:46] Hamish: Yeah, but I mean, to use it like a, like a car analogy, like, and even Matt probably knows this, if you ran your car at high revs every single time you got in it, you're gonna fuck it.

    [00:21:55] Why wouldn't I know

    [00:21:59] that? Yeah. I don't know, because you don't come across as a car person. You're not a car person. Car person. Well, [00:22:00] Joel would say that. Joel will love this analogy. Does, do EVs have revs? Like if you, if you, if you, if you ran it at seven, eight, 8,000 revs every single day from the moment you get out of bed to the moment you come home, like one, how the fuck you, are you gonna come down from that?

    [00:22:11] And then if you're doing it again the next day, something's gonna break. 

    [00:22:14] Brad: Yeah. And I did it for a decade. 

    [00:22:16] Hamish: Well, there you go. Okay. So you fucked the car. 

    [00:22:18] Brad: Yeah. You know, and so anyway, we, me and Erica split up. Um, I sort of calmed down a little bit. How long did we split up for? Yeah. Oh, s- three months. Yeah. Okay.

    [00:22:33] Hamish: Hey, Matty, I've been talking to a few people recently, and they're like, "You know what? You've been building for Pro Clima for years. Like, how do we get to where you are?" 

    [00:22:42] Matt: So we all started at level zero at one point, and we got there. But one of the things that Pro Clima have on their website is they have a library of so many details, from wall to roof to subfloor to window assemblies, for multiple different windows, on how to use their product and install it correctly, and is one of the, the best [00:23:00] resources you can find online to learn how to do this.

    [00:23:02] And if you're an architect and you're not sure how to draw something, they've probably got the answer already. 

    [00:23:06] Hamish: And I think about, you know, 2018, 2019, when we f- we, we first started getting into this, we had to trawl through all kinds of different documents. 

    [00:23:14] Matt: We 

    [00:23:15] Hamish: had to make it up. We, we, we had to make it up.

    [00:23:17] It's all there for you. 

    [00:23:18] Matt: Yeah. The answers are free now, and social media's great. There's so many awesome videos and content out there, but the ultimate source of truth is the Pro Clima website. They have every single detail that you can imagine. And you know what? If they don't have it, you can email them and they'll help you solve it.

    [00:23:31] Hamish: Damn right. 

    [00:23:32] Matt: So use Pro Clima, proclima.com.au if you need to reach out to them.

    [00:23:42] Brad: We met through wakeboarding, um, and, and we sta- it was like... It wasn't an amicable split. I was a bit of a prick. Um The, I just had nothing to give basically. Like, I just was toast. I was like, "Oh, there's-" I've got to work. I, I [00:24:00] don't have any energy to put into anything other than me just getting by fucking day to day.

    [00:24:05] Yeah. Um, and then, yeah, sort of- Did she tell you you needed help? So after, after we started hanging out again, you know, things sort of, you know kicked off again really, like with my anxiety, and she was like, "You need to go and get help." Yeah. And I was like, "All right. That seems fucking logical." Um- Did she say what help?

    [00:24:35] Did she say what help? Yeah. Psychological or- No, 

    [00:24:37] Matt: that's what... 

    [00:24:38] Brad: Well, I knew what 

    [00:24:38] Matt: she meant 

    [00:24:38] Brad: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, okay. You know, she's like, "You, you need to go talk to someone or whatever-" Yeah ... "'cause it's not fucking normal." And I was like, "Okay." And at that point, you know, like, this world didn't exist. So d- we're talking maybe 2018-ish, 2019?

    [00:24:54] No, this was like t- t- Like, so did we still want to- End of, end of '16. So we're still in the same year now? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. [00:25:00] Um, and I was like, "Cool." So I went to a fucking GP. Yep. Um, and he was, he was pretty good. And yeah, just had a, had a pretty open conversation with him, and he suggested going to couples counseling.

    [00:25:21] And I was like- Not a psychologist? Nup. Nup. Um, I think, like, a lot of the stuff was, like... Obviously, it was all to do with my anxiety, but it was really peaked because w- me and Erica had different ways of communicating and completely different needs as humans. 

    [00:25:44] Matt: Yep. 

    [00:25:45] Brad: You know? So at the end of a hard day, I want to be left the fuck alone.

    [00:25:51] Erica wants the complete opposite. So she's coming home from a hard day at work wanting that human interaction, and I'm coming home from a [00:26:00] hard day thinking, "I don't want to fucking interact with anyone." 

    [00:26:03] Matt: Okay. 

    [00:26:04] Brad: And it's obviously causing this conflict in our relationship, because how do you meet both those needs when they're complete fucking opposites?

    [00:26:13] So couples counseling was honestly the fucking greatest money I've ever spent. Yep. You know? And it was, again, she's fucking great. Nothing to do with her, it was all of my shit. 

    [00:26:27] Matt: Were you selfish or you just didn't know any different? 

    [00:26:30] Brad: W- Selfish in what way? 

    [00:26:31] Matt: Like, that you just wanted to go home and do, like, your thing.

    [00:26:35] Does that make sense? Um- Like, do you felt like you'd like... Do you look back and go, "Well-" 

    [00:26:38] Brad: It probably was- 

    [00:26:39] Matt: Yeah ... 

    [00:26:39] Brad: selfish, but I thought she was selfish. 

    [00:26:42] Matt: Yeah, I know. That's why I asked it, yeah. 

    [00:26:43] Brad: And, and that's, you know, 'cause it's like, I'm getting home, I'm going, "F- I just want to be left the fucking alone. Leave me the fuck alone.

    [00:26:47] I've had a hard day." 

    [00:26:48] Matt: Yeah. 

    [00:26:48] Brad: But she's thinking the same thing in the opposite of like, "I've had a fucking hard day, I need it." 

    [00:26:54] Matt: Let's go for a walk. 

    [00:26:55] Brad: You know? 

    [00:26:55] Matt: Yeah. 

    [00:26:56] Brad: We operate completely differently, you know? [00:27:00] And that was my first... We did all these, you know, fucking exercises and stuff on different personality types and the love languages and all that fucking...

    [00:27:12] It's not nonsense, you know, whatever. Yeah. It's obviously, you know, legitimate. But I'd never thought about that before. I'd never been explained to it before. You know what I mean? Like, I... Like I said, I didn't grow up in this world that we operate in now. And I have this conversation all the time with Joe.

    [00:27:28] He's like, "I don't know how you're still in the building game, it's fucked." And I'm like, "I don't operate in the same world that we operated in when you were in the game." Mm. It is not the same thing. It is a completely different, a completely different industry. 

    [00:27:40] Matt: Did you think it was all woo-woo or at the time?

    [00:27:43] Brad: Nah. 

    [00:27:44] Matt: No, you actually, so you went in pretty open-minded. You weren't just like, "

    [00:27:46] Brad: Oh"- I've always been extremely open-minded. Um, you know, and, uh, I've had a couple of, um, even, like, the, the last psychologist that I saw, he was like, "I can't believe how," you know- [00:28:00] open-minded you are. Well, not just open-minded, but, like, I'm in there to fucking get what I- To learn

    [00:28:07] can get out of this. Yeah. You know, I've always been, yeah, hungry to learn about what- whatever it is. I just had never been exposed to it. 

    [00:28:14] Matt: Yep. You don't know what you don't know. 

    [00:28:16] Brad: No. You know? Um, so yeah, that was all good. You know, whatever. The following couple of years after that were pretty good. I had all these new tools to deal with my stress and anxiety.

    [00:28:29] Mine and Erica's communication was fucking amazing. We had a safe word so that if I had a absolute fucking asshole of a day, I'd come home. Or, you know, if we were, if we were in a situation where I was starting to get wound up- 

    [00:28:43] Hamish: Yeah ... 

    [00:28:44] Brad: I could just drop the word and remove myself from that situation. And then when I had the ability to calm myself down- You'd go back to it

    [00:28:52] we could then have a productive conversation- Yeah ... and it not go fucking pear-shaped. 

    [00:28:55] Hamish: Can I... You, you talk about tools, 'cause that's a, that's some language that [00:29:00] my psychologist uses as well. So, and again, I'm not throwing this back to me, I'm just curious to, to see what you did. Because there's a couple of different approaches when we're dealing with anxiety and dealing with depression.

    [00:29:10] One is CBT, so cogniti- cognitive behavioral therapy, and then there's also medication. Yeah. What were, what, what were the things that you did? Did you, did you ever get medicated for anxiety? No. No. So you were using sort of CBT? Cognitive 

    [00:29:22] Matt: behavioral therapy, is that 

    [00:29:24] Hamish: right? Yeah, cog- cog- cognitive behavioral therapy.

    [00:29:27] That's right. So it's basically understanding how you respond to different, um, scenarios, and then using the tools that they're teaching you to then respond to it. 

    [00:29:35] Brad: Yeah. Well, like, the counselor that I went to was just this lovely woman that worked at a church. I don't know if she was, like, full trained in anything or whatever, no idea.

    [00:29:46] But basically it was, you know, me understanding what my triggers were, and the biggest thing for me was just, like, immediate removal from that situation was the best thing that I could do. And then [00:30:00] breathing exercises to calm my- self down really. 

    [00:30:05] Hamish: Yeah, so that's what you're t- what you're describing is CBT.

    [00:30:08] Brad: Yeah, 

    [00:30:08] Hamish: yeah. Yeah. 

    [00:30:09] Brad: Yeah. And then, you know, once I'd had the, the time to, I guess, reflect on whatever the situation was, I could tackle it and communicate very differently. You know? So that was all good. We had a fucking good trot. Things sort of... You know, obviously it was always still a, something that was on the back of my mind, and I knew, you know, this is something that I'm probably gonna have to manage for, for life.

    [00:30:38] It is what it is. Yep. Like, that's, you know, part and parcel of, of- what I do. Um, and then we got to s- say, 2022. So Erica's pregnant with our son Flynn, and I fucking broke [00:31:00] both my wrists in a motorbike accident, which we've discussed before. Um, so that was the first major step in me not being able to resolve a problem by just flogging myself at work.

    [00:31:16] Hamish: 'Cause if we go back to some of the things you talked about before, 72 days in a row, the grind, you know, you know, to, to solve problems you just worked harder. Yep. Like, you didn't have those tools at your disposal then. 

    [00:31:26] Brad: No. No, I was- And motorbike riding was an outlet for you. That was you time. 

    [00:31:30] Matt: Yep. 

    [00:31:31] Brad: Yeah. So you just lost that.

    [00:31:32] And, and that was... I always justified the work by going, "Oh, but I've got a dirt bike, I can do this." You know, we had built a, a caravan. Um, Joe, my mate, my old boss, that's what he does now, builds custom caravans. Um, so we had... When he first started his business, we, we, you know, we built a caravan through the COVID lockdowns.

    [00:31:53] Um, you know, mine and Erica's honeymoon was in Joe's fucking driveway 'cause it was in the middle of COVID [00:32:00] shit. Um, anyway. And let, let, let's- Do you still motorbike ride? Do you still dirt bike or have you gone back to it? Um, I've got a small bike that we rip around on farms and stuff. But don't like it.

    [00:32:11] Uh, the crashed bike is still crashed in my shed. Um, and it- Is that a 

    [00:32:16] Hamish: reminder of what could happen? 

    [00:32:17] Brad: Nah. It's, um- Uh, yeah, we, we... As the, you know, the timeline evolves or whatever. But basically, you know, I had a lot of cool hobbies, and like that, in 2022 they were gone. No more dirt bike and no more snowboarding, no more wakeboarding, none of this shit.

    [00:32:40] And this wasn't related to COVID, though? This was just- No, this was- Yeah ... yeah, after COVID. I just fucking- Yeah ... had a very unfortunate accident. 

    [00:32:48] Hamish: Yeah. 

    [00:32:49] Brad: And yeah, it f- I fucking literally changed my life and even 

    [00:32:53] worked. 

    [00:32:53] Hamish: But I mean, let, I mean, let's, I mean just, no, d- it wasn't just a, it wasn't just a cheeky motorbike accident.

    [00:32:57] It was a head-on collision. You could have died. 

    [00:32:59] Brad: Yes. [00:33:00] 

    [00:33:00] Hamish: Yeah. 

    [00:33:00] Brad: Yeah. What did you collide with, a tree? Another bike. 

    [00:33:02] Hamish: Another bike. 

    [00:33:03] Brad: Oh, I didn't know this. 

    [00:33:03] Hamish: Like, going at what, however many- 

    [00:33:05] Brad: No, oh, we were only doing probably, like, 40 k's each. What happened to the other person? But we hit each other on a blind corner.

    [00:33:10] Did they- Like, no brakes, like- Was the other person- ... like 

    [00:33:13] Matt: a full impact ... what happened to them? 

    [00:33:15] Brad: He sm- shattered his femur. 

    [00:33:16] Matt: Okay, so both of you had 

    [00:33:18] Brad: We were fucked. Yeah, okay. Yeah, we were both pretty, pretty cooked. Yeah. Um, yeah, so yeah, broke both my wrists, I chopped a toe off. 

    [00:33:25] Hamish: Fuck. 

    [00:33:25] Brad: Um. 

    [00:33:26] Hamish: Did you not, I 

    [00:33:26] Brad: did not know this.

    [00:33:27] No, I didn't know that part. 

    [00:33:28] Hamish: Oh, 

    [00:33:28] Brad: man. Yeah. Yeah, the other bike's brake pedal went through my boot. 

    [00:33:31] Hamish: Ah. 

    [00:33:31] Brad: Um. 

    [00:33:31] Hamish: I remember talking to Brad the next day, and I'm, he's, like, telling me about it. I'm just like, "Dude, are you fucking all right?" 

    [00:33:37] Brad: But that's how, that's... I was on the track with, my arm was like fucking... And I was with Joe, and he was like, "F- I've ne..."

    [00:33:45] Like, he's a solid bloke. Like, he has got it fucking together, and he's just like, "Holy fuck." Like, it, the accident fucked him up pretty bad as well, 'cause he was right behind us watching, and he always rode in front. So when you hit him- And he's like, "Oh, you go." And, bam. 

    [00:33:59] Hamish: [00:34:00] Ah, 

    [00:34:00] Brad: okay. I fucking drilled myself.

    [00:34:04] Anyway, it, it is what it is. But I remember sitting on the track with, you know, my arm fucking hanging sideways, and I'm like, "Oh, fuck, I'll just put a cast on. I'll be back at work in a week or so, like no big deal." You know, it's not like I hadn't worked injured before. So I, I, honestly, I didn't think a thing of it.

    [00:34:22] I was like, "Oh, whatever, I'll figure it out." 'Cause that's how, I'd always done that. But how long- I'd 

    [00:34:26] Matt: always just got gone like ... how long before you worked out that wasn't gonna happen? 

    [00:34:31] Brad: Uh, I don't know. A f- few, few days after the fucking adrenaline wore off and I realised I couldn't fucking feed myself or wipe my own arse, you know?

    [00:34:38] And I was like, "Ooh, shit, this is probably a bit worse than, than what I fucking thought it was." Um, yeah. And also didn't help that my wife was pregnant at the time. 

    [00:34:47] Matt: How, how many weeks or months pregnant? 

    [00:34:50] Brad: Oh, she was halfway. 

    [00:34:51] Matt: Okay. So you, you, you had a little bit of time to recover, but not much. 

    [00:34:55] Brad: Yeah, not, not a lot.

    [00:34:56] It was good practice for her, um, 

    [00:34:58] Matt: you 

    [00:34:58] Brad: know, 'cause she had a- And you got 

    [00:34:59] Matt: to still 

    [00:34:59] Brad: play with your arms. Yeah. Both? [00:35:00] Yeah, both of them. Yeah. Yep. Yeah, so had the accident and, yeah, all these things that, you know, was the justification for my hard work, you know, getting to go and do these things was gone in a, in a fucking instant.

    [00:35:16] Matt: When did you realise they were gone? Did you not, not... Did you recognise it later on, or was it something 

    [00:35:21] Brad: that- No, I recognised it later on. I was fucking naive. Yeah, yeah. But the surgeon at the hospital said to Erica I was, I was f*cking out of it. Um, his left wrist is f*cked. Like f*cked. Like it's gonna be bad.

    [00:35:39] And, um, yeah, I just was always, like, incredibly optimistic about how things would work out and always just had the mentality that I'll figure it out. 

    [00:35:47] Matt: Is that the one that you wear the brace on now? Yeah. Yeah, okay. Yeah. So there, it is actually worse. 

    [00:35:51] Brad: It is- Yeah. Yeah, okay ... touched. Um- 

    [00:35:53] Matt: The other one's okay?

    [00:35:54] Brad: The other one's fine. Wouldn't- Yeah ... wouldn't know I broke it. 

    [00:35:56] Matt: Yeah, okay. 

    [00:35:56] Brad: Um, so yeah, [00:36:00] it took a little bit of time for me to realize how, how cooked it was, um, and I probably realized how cooked it was at Kangaroo Ground. 

    [00:36:09] Hamish: Mm. 

    [00:36:09] Brad: Um, so I was in rehab for ages, um, and eventually it got to like, "Oh, you know, just go back to work," or whatever.

    [00:36:19] Um, and I wasn't really, like, building a hell of a lot at, at the time. Um, so I actually did a frame for Hamish and just grit my teeth and just f*cking sent it. 

    [00:36:31] Matt: And- Because you, that's all you knew ... 

    [00:36:32] Brad: that's all I knew what to do. I was like, "I've just had time off work. I need the money." You know?

    [00:36:43] Matt: Do you have income protection? Yeah. Yeah, okay. So side note to anyone, if you're a tradie and you don't have income protection- Or, or- Or you're an 

    [00:36:44] Hamish: apprentice ... 

    [00:36:45] Matt: or anyone. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Literally, if you're on a tools physic- if you do physical work- 

    [00:36:49] Hamish: Well, there's 

    [00:36:49] Matt: your mind for moment right there ... if you're, if you're, if you're...

    [00:36:50] Yeah, exactly. If you're a hairdresser to a makeup artist to a carpenter to anything a pr- anything where you use your hands that requires you to physically [00:37:00] do it, osteo, physio, go get income protection. 

    [00:37:03] Brad: Yeah. So I didn't use any income protection because my accident was covered by TAC, and you can't claim both.

    [00:37:09] Anyway, um- Do 

    [00:37:10] Matt: they still pay you wage at TAC or a certain percentage? I was about to say. 

    [00:37:12] Brad: Yes, but here's a little life lesson for you if you're self-employed. If you pay yourself two-fifths of f*ck all out of your business, you will get paid two-fifths of f*ck all from either your income protection or TAC. Oh.

    [00:37:25] Because they work off what your average is. Yes. So pay yourself. Mm. 

    [00:37:29] Hamish: But c- 

    [00:37:29] Brad: Well, that's easier said than done- I know ... 'cause when you're managing cashflow, the easiest thing you can do as a- Not pay yourself ... you know- Yeah ... self-employed is, is, which we'll get into. 

    [00:37:38] Matt: So pay yourself and then put money back into the company.

    [00:37:41] At least show that you're paying yourself. 

    [00:37:43] Brad: Yeah. Yeah. So what I was eligible for via the TAC was two-fifths of sh*t all. So even though I had it, um, and same, the coverage that I had at the time in income protection was a [00:38:00] lot more than what I was paying myself, so they would've just looked at it the same way and said, "Oh, y- you don't make that money."

    [00:38:08] Hamish: Yeah, okay. That's interesting. 

    [00:38:10] Brad: So anyway, something to be, uh, mindful about We'll get back to that 

    [00:38:13] Matt: mindful moment, 

    [00:38:14] Brad: yeah. Anyway, so I fucking barrelled myself. I had a pretty rough trot for probably a year after that, just trying to figure out what I was gonna do. '

    [00:38:26] Hamish: Cause there, there was an identity crisis there- So 

    [00:38:28] Brad: we're now into 2023 roughly

    [00:38:29] you know, like, 'cause, 'cause you- Yeah ... you know, I think- 

    [00:38:29] Hamish: Yeah, we're into, yeah, like start of 2023, 

    [00:38:29] Matt: yep ... 'cause you,

    [00:38:33] Hamish: you'd always identified as this person that just center, that you could solve all problems using your hands, and then all of a sudden that's taken away from you. And I know, like- Yeah ... during that time we were having heaps of conversations around that, and I know it was really hard for you. 

    [00:38:44] Brad: Yeah, 'cause I was like, "What the fuck do I do?"

    [00:38:47] You know, and then trying to f- find other people to do what I do is, is really hard. Like, I'm actually pretty fucking good at being a tradie. Um- 

    [00:38:58] Hamish: I think you, you, [00:39:00] you're- Good at everything ... you're exceptional at being a tradie, and I think that you, your, your standards of yourself are so unbelievably high that you actually struggle when people aren't that high.

    [00:39:10] Brad: Yeah, absolutely, yeah. It's, um, it's very detrimental. Um, yeah. And it's, yeah. Like, the, the things that happen on jobs impact me in a way that I've not seen many other people impacted the same way. Only t- I only have ever met two other tradies that wear it as hard as I do when things don't go right. What do you mean don't go right?

    [00:39:39] Like, when things aren't perfect, like, it eats me up in a way that is so fucking unhealthy and so hard to deal with, that's not normal. 

    [00:39:49] Matt: Like, the, the process isn't perfect or, like, the, like, the finish isn't perfect, or everything? The who- the whole lot. Okay. 

    [00:39:54] Hamish: So, I, I mean, I've got experience with Brad being on one of my sites, and I know him and I have had conversations about [00:40:00] this frame at Kangaroo Ground, and I'm like, "Oh, mate, that's fine."

    [00:40:03] And I think we've had conversations around, like, I don't think that I'm less of a builder, and don't think that I don't care about quality, but you know, in my whole triage of this situation right now, that's fine and we can move on. Whereas I know it just completely consumes you. 

    [00:40:18] Matt: Yeah, it consumes me, yeah.

    [00:40:19] Is anything ever good enough for you then? It, it, like, I, I, like, I'm not, uh, like- No ... questioning what I'm ma- Yeah. Like, yeah, is it like no matter... You, you don't reward yourself. That's what I was trying to get at. Like, you, no matter how well you did it, if it wasn't a hundred, 99.9, you'd be like, "Can always do better."

    [00:40:34] Yeah, 

    [00:40:35] Brad: yeah. And it's, you know, it's something now, like I s- said, I've had the last couple of months to really reflect on things and identify big issues that I've got, you know? And s- there's gonna be some things that, like, that's just my personality, and it's gonna be very hard to manage, but they're things now that I know- I need to, 

    [00:40:58] Matt: I need to try [00:41:00] and- 

    [00:41:00] Hamish: Well, can 

    [00:41:00] Matt: I, can 

    [00:41:00] Hamish: I jump- Well, awareness, awareness is the first step, Ryan

    [00:41:02] Matt: can, can I jump for- then I might be jumping forward to maybe go back. Did all this come a- apart or, or come around because Bax took his life? 

    [00:41:09] Brad: No. 

    [00:41:10] Matt: Okay, so it was be- well, before this. 

    [00:41:12] Brad: Yeah. So anyway, I had the accident, whatever. Um, I soldiered on for a bit, you know, sort of half worked things out, and I just was gritting my teeth and dealing with, dealing with my injury.

    [00:41:31] Um- 'Cause you were 

    [00:41:32] Hamish: in pain too, weren't you? 

    [00:41:32] Brad: Yeah, yeah, I was. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like, the Kangaroo Ground frame, I was going home and not able to sleep, 'cause I was in fits of pain, and I just would go back to work the next day and grit my fucking teeth and s- send it. 

    [00:41:46] Matt: That's- Because that's what you knew ... 

    [00:41:47] Brad: that's all I knew how to do, you know?

    [00:41:48] So it was, the injury then sort of like set something else off in that I'm now going to work, ruining my [00:42:00] body more than it already is, for no fucking reward, because now all my hobbies are gone. 

    [00:42:08] Matt: Other than financial reward. Yeah. Hey, I'm about to go on a journey with systems, and I'm working with James from Biztech Guru, who, he was a guest on our podcast.

    [00:42:17] Hamish: He was, and I've actually done a lot of work with James in the past, and it has transformed my business from just being this classic clusterfuck of a building company to a systems orientated focused business. 

    [00:42:30] Matt: And what is, from my understanding, it's all focused on builders, and- Yep ... we're going to be doing a live webinar with him coming up- Yep

    [00:42:36] as part of this, and it's gonna be a big introduction to systems and how it can improve your business. 

    [00:42:41] Hamish: And you know the beauty about it? It is gonna be absolutely free. Yeah. So keep an eye out for the dates. Uh, this is gonna be a really incredibly valuable workshop to not miss out on. 

    [00:42:51] Matt: Yeah. So either shoot us a DM, um, check the show notes, but we'll put a link below here to show you how to sign up.

    [00:42:58] So- 

    [00:42:58] Hamish: Cheers ... 

    [00:42:59] Matt: make sure you sign up.[00:43:00] 

    [00:43:06] Brad: It is. The identity crisis was more than just, "Am I a carpenter anymore?" And it was like all these things that have formed who I am as a person are fucking gone. I'm not a... Can I be a carpenter anymore? I can't fucking wakeboard, I can't surf, I can't snowboard, I can't ride dirt bikes. All gone, you know? And at the same time, I've got a kid, you know, that I can't change his fucking clothes.

    [00:43:34] I can't... His first bath, Erica had a fucking shithouse birth experience, so neither of us gave him his first bath, 'cause I couldn't pick the fucker up, and neither could she. 

    [00:43:44] Matt: And they're only three kilos, three and a half kilos at that point, too. It's not like it's... 

    [00:43:47] Brad: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And it's like, you know, all these things that I thought, "Yeah, fuck, I'm gonna be able to do all these things as a dad," I c- I can't do it, you know?

    [00:43:59] I... [00:44:00] Physically, my body, body is better now. Like, my wrist has slowly got better. I've got a lot better at not doing fucking dumb shit and making it worse. And- You're letting it recover for the first time ... and wearing a, and wearing a wrist brace- Yeah ... constantly, you know? And that's, that's made a, that's made a huge difference.

    [00:44:17] Well, 

    [00:44:17] Hamish: I'm, I'm nine, 10 years old on from a wrist reco, and I reckon it, every day it gets better than what it was. Like, three or four years ago, it was still fucked. 

    [00:44:25] Brad: Yeah. 

    [00:44:25] Matt: The r- Do you get pain? 'Cause I've, I've, I've got plates in one of my arms from a bike accident. I get a lot less 

    [00:44:29] Brad: pain now- Yeah ... 'cause I'm not fucking stupid.

    [00:44:31] Matt: But in winter, do you find it gets cold? 

    [00:44:33] Brad: Yeah. 

    [00:44:33] Matt: Yeah. I 

    [00:44:33] Brad: get a little 

    [00:44:34] Hamish: bit of 

    [00:44:34] Matt: arthri- Yeah, yeah ... 

    [00:44:35] Brad: so I obliterated all the cartilage in my- Okay ... left wrist. Yeah, okay. Um, so it, yeah, it gets a little bit, you know, how you going in, in cold weather. 

    [00:44:45] Matt: Yep.

    [00:44:49] Brad: Anyway, after that I sort of half figured it out and we had not a bad trot Sort of 23, 24, financially I did [00:45:00] what I thought was really well, like the best that I had ever done. Um, I was able to completely support Erica being a stay-at-home mum. They were having a fucking- 

    [00:45:10] Matt: Grand old time ... 

    [00:45:11] Brad: a, a grand old time, and my whole life was working my absolute fucking ring off.

    [00:45:18] And, you know, coming- '

    [00:45:20] Hamish: Cause this, this was around about the time of the hempcrete house too, wasn't it? 

    [00:45:23] Brad: Yeah. So 23, 24 was w- when I, when I built the hempcrete house, and I had another project on, um, a stone cottage resto. So I had plenty of work, and the work was filling my cup up, like it was enjoyable work.

    [00:45:36] And so that just became my sole focus, you know? I just put everything into- 

    [00:45:45] Matt: That ... 

    [00:45:45] Brad: into those things. I had just finished building a house for my parents, which, you know, was, in itself, an incredibly difficult, um, thing to, thing to do. Um, you know, I've, I've said it to their face, I'll never [00:46:00] have as difficult a client as them.

    [00:46:02] Matt: Were they difficult, or were you di- were you the problem? 

    [00:46:05] Brad: Um, no, it was just a challenge in that, you know, they try to help a lot, but it's more of a hindrance than a help, but they don't understand. And again, this is, you know, a lot to do with how I communicate things. You know, I'm not the most articulate person when I'm really stressed and anxious.

    [00:46:29] Yeah. Like, I shoot from the fucking hip, and I shoot fucking fast and hard. 

    [00:46:33] Matt: As we can see. 

    [00:46:34] Brad: Yeah. Yeah. It- Yeah ... really fucking- 

    [00:46:37] Hamish: Whi- which, which ironically is- I kind of like it ... is what's- It works for me ... so endearing about you. Yeah. Uh, in, in, in one breath, but I can also understand if you're thinking in your sort of mammalian brain, you know, and you are fight or flight mode- 

    [00:46:50] Brad: Yeah

    [00:46:50] Hamish: and not thinking about things rationally, I could see how that raw honesty could just come out as like a barrage of like, "Fuck yous." 

    [00:46:58] Brad: Yeah, d- yeah, [00:47:00] yeah. And obviously the more stressed that they see me, the more they try to help. 

    [00:47:05] Hamish: Yeah, okay. 

    [00:47:06] Brad: And the more clouded things get for them, and it just fucking snowballs.

    [00:47:11] And it, it was a, it was a real challenge. Um, anyway, so we- we're doing the fucking hempcrete joint. Everything's, you know, shitting in buckets. Yeah. Um, everything's like all good or whatever- ... and I'm just sort of looking at those projects thinking, you know, "Fuck, once these are done..." You know, there was all these grand plans with the hempcrete house, you know, the landscaping and, "Oh, you know, we'll enter it in awards, and we'll get Mani to shoot it," and- Yeah

    [00:47:41] and all this sort of stuff. And, and towards the end of the project, you know, I started to see that, okay, this is probably not gonna turn out exactly- that, that way. Um- What do you mean by 

    [00:47:55] Matt: that? Not because of your own doing. 

    [00:47:57] Brad: No, there was, like, a lot of things that were, like, client supply [00:48:00] and- 

    [00:48:00] Matt: Yeah, just I 

    [00:48:00] Brad: wanna clarify that

    [00:48:01] um, they were running out of money. Um, we had an engineering failure at the end, and the whole f*cking subfloor deflected, which, uh, you probably copped one of the first phone calls. Yeah. And it was, you know, lawyer up. Um- 

    [00:48:15] Matt: And to give you context, that was definitely not Brad's fault. The l- the engineer completely miscalculated the hempcrete weight and- 

    [00:48:21] Brad: Yeah.

    [00:48:22] Well, the, the wet hempcrete weight. 

    [00:48:23] Matt: Yeah, yeah. 

    [00:48:23] Brad: Yeah. 

    [00:48:23] Matt: Yeah. Yeah. And then in the- All the 

    [00:48:25] Brad: bearers deflected. 

    [00:48:26] Matt: Yeah ... and in that period had also just shut up shop and gone underground and- 

    [00:48:31] Brad: Yeah. 

    [00:48:31] Hamish: And in fact- And 

    [00:48:32] Brad: there's a stack of Google reviews that all say the same thing. 

    [00:48:34] Hamish: Yeah. And in fact, testament to Brad too, 'cause if anyone's listening to this thinking that Brad's a shipbuilder, he is f*cking not.

    [00:48:39] I've been to that house, and if it wasn't for Brad, that house would not be what it is. Yeah. 

    [00:48:43] Brad: Yeah. Anyway, I- I'm a psychopath with how I do most things, and- I fucking- 

    [00:48:53] Matt: Is that how you present to clients? I'm a psychopath. 

    [00:48:56] Brad: Oh, they know. Um, they know. [00:49:00] Um- In, 

    [00:49:00] Hamish: in, in the best way, 

    [00:49:01] Matt: by the way. Yeah, yeah, 

    [00:49:01] Brad: yeah. In, in the absolute- I have a really close relationship with a lot of the clients that-

    [00:49:06] that I work with and have worked with, and, um- I'd want you 

    [00:49:10] Matt: building my house ... 

    [00:49:11] Brad: they just understand that there's certain things that I have to do for me. Yeah. And just stay out of my fucking way. You know? Like, we just put these fucking handmade Moroccan higgity-piggity fucking tiles on the wall yesterday, and I was...

    [00:49:29] I nearly needed to have a fucking Valium 'cause I'm like, "This is not working with my fucking OCD," like, all different sizes. Was that, was that 

    [00:49:37] Hamish: the, was that the post that- Yeah ... you popped up the other day saying, "What this picture doesn't show is Brad's anxiety"? Yeah, 

    [00:49:42] Brad: yeah, yeah. I was, like, absolutely beside myself, and the cl- one of the clients was there.

    [00:49:48] This job's for these two lovely people, Mattie and Russ. They're fucking legends. Um, and Russ is like, "Oh no, but it's meant to be this, like, natural look." And I'm like, "Yeah, I, I, I get that, but, like, [00:50:00] some of these tiles are fucked. Like, they got pimples on 'em, and-" Do you remember- "... there's glazing missing, and..."

    [00:50:04] Do you- So I'm like, "How natural has it got to be?" 

    [00:50:06] Hamish: Do you remember when we went to the h- um, to the Far North stuff? Yeah. And we walked past the shed and- Yeah ... you pointed out the corrugated cladding, and you said, "I really like that, but I'd actually, like, shoot myself putting that together because I would have to match up perfectly all of the rusted bits."

    [00:50:23] And I'm just like, "Couldn't you just, like, lay it as it is?" And he goes, "Nah." 

    [00:50:26] Brad: Nah. 

    [00:50:27] Hamish: Get out of my way. He goes, "I like it, I like it now, but I could never lay that." Yeah. 

    [00:50:29] Brad: I have to go somewhere else. Someone else has to do it. Yeah, okay. I can't, I cannot be involved with that shit. It, it does not, it does not work for me.

    [00:50:37] Hamish: Um- What is it? What is it? What is it about it? 

    [00:50:40] Brad: I, I d- I don't know. And it's like I look at it finished and I think, "Yeah, that fucking looks really good," you know? Um, but I've just always been fixated on perfection. Yeah. And so when you're doing- Are you a 

    [00:50:52] Matt: perfectionist? 

    [00:50:53] Brad: Yeah. 

    [00:50:53] Matt: Are you outside of work a perfectionist?

    [00:50:56] Well, it depends on what. Like around house, like are you, like, a clean [00:51:00] freak and can't- No. No. So you, so it's only, it's your, 

    [00:51:03] Brad: uh, you're just, you're a perfectionist in building? Yeah. On site? Yeah. Um, anyway, so we have this fucking engineering failure on this stupid fucking job, and I'm just like, "Fuck. Now the job's not gonna turn out how I want it to turn out, and it's not my fucking fault."

    [00:51:23] You know? The clients have got fucking no money. We've now got to come up with a solution to fix this fucking problem. Um, so it basically ended up me doing, you know, and it's a no-win situation, 'cause, like, to them it still cost them a shitload of money, but I basically did it for fucking almost nothing. Um, we finished, we finished the job, and yeah, there was a- Big, 

    [00:51:48] Hamish: big, big shout-out to Yasha, by the way 

    [00:51:50] Brad: Oh, yeah, fucking Yasha- Big shout-out to Yasha

    [00:51:51] what a fucking legend. Um, first time I had ever dealt with an engineer that you could have a legitimate conversation [00:52:00] with, and he could explain things, and we could work through it. 

    [00:52:02] Matt: Yep. 

    [00:52:03] Brad: Um, amazing. Anyway- 

    [00:52:05] Matt: And that's an understatement- That- ... 

    [00:52:06] Brad: the 

    [00:52:06] Matt: way that you explain that too. Yeah. 

    [00:52:08] Brad: Like Yeah. So we finished, we finished the job, and there was, you know, obviously a lot of client supply stuff there, a lot of things that they were doing themselves, and the finished product on the job was just not at all what, not at all what I wanted it to be.

    [00:52:30] What do you mean by that? Um, yeah, there's, like, just certain things in there where I got to the end of that project, and I looked at things, and I was just like, "Why the fuck did I bother? Why did you get me to build it?" 

    [00:52:45] Hamish: So I'm just gonna jump to your defense just for a little bit, just for a little bit here.

    [00:52:49] Like, I've seen the finished pro- photos of that project, and I've been to the house, and I understand where you're coming from. Like, some of the things didn't quite turn out how you thought it [00:53:00] might, but the house is exceptional. 

    [00:53:02] Brad: Is that to do with 

    [00:53:03] Matt: their style of living rather than the finish? Well, I think that's af- 

    [00:53:05] Hamish: but I think that's after.

    [00:53:06] Nah. That, that's, that's after the fact. 

    [00:53:09] Brad: Like- 

    [00:53:09] Matt: Like, 

    [00:53:10] Brad: you know, like, they oiled the floors themselves Yeah. I, I hope you show a reel of Matt's face now. Um 

    [00:53:19] Hamish: No, I, you see, but see I get, I get this stuff, right? I get it. I get- But, but I think, I think what I'm... And I think this just- It's a natural 

    [00:53:24] Brad: look, 

    [00:53:25] Hamish: yeah ... this just talks about, like, different personalities.

    [00:53:27] 'Cause I'm just like, "Well, you know what? You painted it. You did it. That's on you." Like, I'm- Yeah ... I'm proud of all these other things. Yeah. Like, and as a whole- 

    [00:53:32] Brad: But 

    [00:53:33] Hamish: like- ... the project's really good ... 

    [00:53:34] Brad: then it's like, okay, when we have people walk through, do I need to, like, have a caveat and go, "Oh, actually I wasn't responsible for that or that or that or that"?

    [00:53:40] That's what I've done before. Yeah. I think, and I think so. Like, "Don't look at the painting. Not, I didn't do 

    [00:53:43] Hamish: it." And I think so. 

    [00:53:43] Brad: Yeah. And it just, you know, I had got to a point- Mentally and in my career at that point that I was like, "I just wanna fucking do a job like some of the ones that you guys have," where, like, you've got a landscape gardener, and, like, you [00:54:00] get to the end, and it's like the whole fucking job is just- 

    [00:54:02] Hamish: Yeah, okay

    [00:54:03] Brad: titties. 

    [00:54:03] Hamish: Yep. 

    [00:54:06] Brad: You know?

    [00:54:10] And, you know, I had the same thing with, like, the Little River project. That got to the end, and the client sort of lost interest there, and I was like, "These jobs finished are gonna photograph amazing. I'm gonna get so many opportunities out of them. It's gonna be the fucking best." And so I ju- I just was like fucking, I felt fairly defeated, to be honest, 'cause I was like, "Fuck, what a fucking huge opportunity cost that I've put so much energy into these, and I'm not gonna get the reward now of, like, having a beautiful photographed- Yeah, okay

    [00:54:39] job that ends up in magazines and, you know, to, to- Is that 

    [00:54:42] Matt: ultimately the lowest point of you- 

    [00:54:45] Brad: Fuck no, not even close. Yeah. 

    [00:54:46] Matt: Yeah. Okay, that's why. 

    [00:54:48] Hamish: No, we're just getting started. 

    [00:54:49] Matt: I know, I know, I know. 

    [00:54:50] Brad: Yeah. So- That sort of finished, um, and I was like, I had been, you know, through pre-con with a couple [00:55:00] other projects that fell over and whatever else, and I'd always just like flown by the seat of my pants, not really given a f- much of a fuck, to be honest.

    [00:55:07] Um, I was always like, "Yeah, it fucking works itself out," and it always did. Um, and Matt kindly palmed a job off to me that was landed on my desk ready to rock and roll, and I was like, "Beautiful, this has worked out fucking magic." And I was like- Who needs marketing when you've got Matt? Yeah, who... Yeah, Matt and Hamish,

    [00:55:28] they just fucking palm me the jobs they don't want to do. Um, the, um, yeah, so this job was ready to rock and roll. I met the clients, got along amazing, job's fucking sick. I'm like, "This is unbelievable." Um, so I said to Erica, I'm like, "I'm fucking pretty toast. I'm gonna take a month off and then start this other job."

    [00:55:52] And I was like, beautiful. I've missed out on, like, all this stuff with, like, her and Flynn. Um, I get to be a [00:56:00] dad. I don't have to stress. I've been paid for the other job. Like, this one's gonna be ready to fucking rock and roll. I'll, I'll take a month off, hang out with you guys, and then, you know, crack on.

    [00:56:10] And- 

    [00:56:11] Matt: We're, 

    [00:56:11] Brad: we're in 2024 now? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so early-ish '24. 

    [00:56:17] Matt: Yep. 

    [00:56:18] Brad: Um, so I get about two weeks into this month break and I'm like, "There's no fucking way this job's starting. Absolutely fucking no way." 

    [00:56:27] Matt: It's every job, though. That's just not... Yeah. 

    [00:56:29] Brad: Yeah. Um, and I was like, "I have no idea when it's gonna fucking start.

    [00:56:33] I'm going back to work." So like every other time in my life, I was like, "I'm just gonna fucking get back on the horse." Go back to what you know. And so now I have to tell my family that I'd told I was gonna take a month off, I'm fucking going back to work now. You know? And I don't think Erica really understood it.

    [00:56:55] Flynn certainly didn't understand it. Um, family and [00:57:00] stuff don't really understand it. You know, you start getting a lot of the, "Oh, but I thought you were gonna take a month off." Yeah, I fucking thought the job was gonna be ready. Like, uh, you know, things change for me. And being, you know, and this is a big thing that I've realised, I'm not a business.

    [00:57:14] I'm fucking Brad You know, there's no backup plan. If someone calls in sick, there's no, there's not 20 other people there to pick up the slack. It's fucking me. Like, I'm, I'm doing it, you know? And, you know, I'm not this business that makes money when I'm not there. I fucking whack shit together and get paid.

    [00:57:36] That's, that's how I function. 

    [00:57:38] Matt: And you've made the comment to me in the past that some people just don't want to grow. They're just happy doing- Absolutely. I fucking couldn't think of any- I love you too ... I couldn't 

    [00:57:48] Brad: fucking think of anything worse than sitting in an office every day in front of a computer doing admin.

    [00:57:55] Like, it, it is just not what I see being a builder [00:58:00] as, for me personally, you know? Um, I've always wanted to be the problem solver on site, doing all that sort of shit, you know? I've got no interest in growing. I've said many times, especially to Jack, I just want to be a myth. You know? I don't want to do marketing, nothing.

    [00:58:18] I just want to build cool shit for cool people and f- 

    [00:58:21] Matt: One awesome project at a time. That one's finishing, next one's starting. 

    [00:58:25] Brad: Yep. Yeah. And- And I put my fucking... When I say I put my heart and soul into a fucking job, I legitimately like- 

    [00:58:31] Matt: And- 

    [00:58:31] Brad: It is like 

    [00:58:32] Matt: consuming ... to give context on that, your Bubs project right now with the, is it the cellar and the glass bricks?

    [00:58:38] Yeah. If you want any idea of Brad wanting to push boundaries and putting everything into it, just go watch some of that stuff. Practically making it up. 

    [00:58:47] Brad: Yeah. So- 

    [00:58:49] Hamish: A- and n- not only that, but doing it all himself. 

    [00:58:50] Matt: Yeah, and, but doing it right, but making it like bringing a vision to life. Yeah. 

    [00:58:56] Brad: Yeah. But the rabbit holes I go down- 

    [00:58:59] Hamish: I know[00:59:00] 

    [00:59:00] Brad: it, uh, it's ludicrous. It's- Anyway, I love it. I enjoy it, whatever, you know. Sometimes it just doesn't, doesn't work out. Um, and yeah, around this time was the first time that things just didn't matter how hard I worked, it just didn't fucking work out, you know? Obviously, this was the first time in my life that I had other people relying on me, you know, in Erica and Flynn.

    [00:59:27] Erica was a stay-at-home mum. Um, so all that financial pressure- it, it is on me And head down, bum up- Yeah ... didn't work, did it? And I worked out really fucking fast that without builds going on, my money was fucking disappearing really fucking quickly. Like, insanely quickly. And so I just went back to what I know, which is just fucking work, work, fucking work, and I was doing anything that I [01:00:00] possibly could.

    [01:00:00] You were repairing a boat at some s- Repairing a boat. I was doing farm fencing. I- my mentality has always been, by any fucking means necessary, I will get money. I couldn't have give two fucks what it was. I'll clean fucking toilets, anything. Like, when shit has hit the fan, I've always just been like, "I'm just gonna grit my teeth and just fucking get it done."

    [01:00:23] And it did not matter how many fucking hours I put in, it wasn't enough money to support my family. I feel like that attitude is gone. 

    [01:00:34] Hamish: Which, what, what, what 

    [01:00:35] Matt: attitude? Just, I will do whatever I need to do to put food on the table. 

    [01:00:38] Brad: Oh, 

    [01:00:38] Matt: I'm sure- In our modern culture. 

    [01:00:39] Brad: I'm sure some people have that attitude anyway.

    [01:00:42] Like, it's, that's neither here nor there. The Yeah, so it got really hard in that now I'm like... And I had said to Erica through '23, '24 when I was doing what I thought was really well financially, I'm like, "I don't give a fuck if you never go back to work at all. This is great. You [01:01:00] get to have..." And I was so proud to be able to give her and Flynn that life of being a stay-at-home mum.

    [01:01:06] And so now I've had to say, "I can't take this time off. I've got to go back to work." And then that conversation started going fuck, you know. Like, we had a house cleaner and I was like, "I can't, I can't afford the cleaner anymore. Cleaner's got to go." So now I've put more pressure on Erica to be able to, you know, "Oh, you- you've got to do these things."

    [01:01:28] Clean. And then it was like, you know, conversations around, "Fuck, Erica, you've got to go back- To work ... to work now." You know? And then it's like, well, how do we make that work? And, you know, some of the early conversations, you know, because I'm waiting for this fucking job to start, and Erica's like, "Well, do you want me to go back to work?"

    [01:01:45] And I'm like, "Fuck." By the time you f- find a job, we get Flynn into childcare, and all this shit's three months down the track, the job will have started. Well, three months turned into four, five, six, seven. It actually ended up being fucking eight months that I was without. 

    [01:01:59] Matt: And we're now into early [01:02:00] 2025. 

    [01:02:01] Brad: Uh, yeah, it was at start of, start of 2025.

    [01:02:05] So I sign a contract for this job, and we get started, and yeah, everyone's like, "Oh, you must be-" You're like, finally. Well, everyone's like, "Oh, you must be so fucking relieved." And I was like, "No." I said, "I'm fucked." Like, I knew I was financially fucked, and I said to Erica, I'm like, "I'm fucked till midway through this year if this job goes well."

    [01:02:30] And did the job go well? Absolutely fucking not. What do you mean by that? So I massively underestimated how much labor was going to go into that concrete works by a fucking long shot, by- Like hours? Like roughly? Hundreds of hours. How many? Hundreds, 

    [01:02:48] Matt: thousands of 

    [01:02:49] Brad: hours? Oh, thousands. So th- yeah, so yeah. 

    [01:02:52] Hamish: So what did you do?

    [01:02:52] You just ground. 

    [01:02:54] Brad: Yep. 

    [01:02:54] Hamish: You went back to what you- I 

    [01:02:55] Brad: fucking grit my fucking teeth and I fucking sent it, you know? And, [01:03:00] um, I don't know how many form workers listen to this, but I did a hell of a lot of that form work by myself, and I stripped all the suspended slab of that cellar, including passing out all the material by myself.

    [01:03:13] Hamish: Holy shit. 

    [01:03:15] Brad: Because I had no fucking money to pay anyone to fucking help me My dad would come and help a fair bit, but he's fucking knocking on 70's door, you know? And not a tradie, you know? W- what else the fuck can I do? There's no money, you know, and that's the thing. People look at the job and, you know, yeah, it's a two and a half, $3 million fucking project, but like you've got to hit the milestones to get fucking paid.

    [01:03:40] Hamish: But you spent... If you, if you, if you think about the timeline here, two and a half, $3 million over two years is nothing in a, in a building and construction company. 

    [01:03:48] Brad: Two and a half million dollars is fucking nothing if the house costs $2.6 million to build, you've taken- Wow ... a 100K fucking hit. 

    [01:03:55] Hamish: That's, 

    [01:03:56] Brad: that's- You know?

    [01:03:56] That's got- And, and that's the thing, that's where a lot of people don't get it, they just [01:04:00] hear these fucking numbers. And look, don't get me wrong, I'm fucking... I remember pricing that job and going, "Fuck, I've put this markup on here," and my fucking eyes blown out of my fucking head. 

    [01:04:14] Matt: I remember you telling me it.

    [01:04:15] Brad: 'Cause it's like I've doubled my revenue, my highest ever, '23, '24 was my highest revenue, and I've doubled it in one contract, bam. I'm like, "I've fucking made it." And- Couldn't be further from the truth ... couldn't be further from the truth. We had another fucking engineering fuck up on that job which caused a three-month delay.

    [01:04:32] Um, now I refuse to work with anyone but Yasha. 

    [01:04:36] Matt: Um, I'm bi- I'm, I'm borderline on that. I've got a project right now that it's another engineer, and fuck are we pulling our hair out. And for an extra $700 it would've been probably saved him. 

    [01:04:48] Hamish: Yeah. 

    [01:04:49] Brad: Yeah. Anyway- 

    [01:04:50] Hamish: Yasha, Yasha, Yasha, the- these, these ones are free, the next ones you're gonna have to pay for.

    [01:04:53] Brad: Yeah. Um, yeah, 

    [01:04:55] Hamish: so- It's R- it's R&N Consulting Engineers, honestly ... yeah. 

    [01:04:58] Brad: So again, I'm going through this [01:05:00] period where, you know-

    [01:05:05] gritting my teeth and working my fucking ring off's not, not working, you know? And I know it's not working, and at the same time I'm, you know, looking at all these things in my life like, I've got no fucking hobbies. I've got no fucking social life outside of, you know, us catching up, which is, like, semi-work related.

    [01:05:25] We don't do a lot, um, that's like- 

    [01:05:28] Matt: Social ... 

    [01:05:29] Brad: purely social. Or, 

    [01:05:30] Hamish: uh, uh, or, or going 

    [01:05:31] Matt: out. But also, 

    [01:05:32] Brad: you 

    [01:05:32] Matt: had a few things outside of your control, but you probably can't talk about on this as well, that's stopped the project. 

    [01:05:38] Brad: Yeah, so the, yeah, the, the, the clients were selling a business to fund the project. Um, and they've been completely open, but I fucking love them.

    [01:05:48] They sound like the best. We get along so fucking well. Um, yeah. And they just kept getting information that essentially the goalpost just kept getting moved for [01:06:00] all of us, and it was a fucking shit situation for everyone. Um, you know, and they've been... I could not be more thankful for them, how much they care about how it's impacted me, and how much they've done to make it right as best as they can.

    [01:06:20] My fucking dumb ass signed a contract with no liquidated damages, and they came to me and said, "We know this is unfair to you, and we want to make it right." And they're like, "T- tell us what you're out, and we'll fucking sort it out," you know? 

    [01:06:38] Matt: Like- Geez ... 

    [01:06:38] Brad: where do you find people like that? 

    [01:06:40] Matt: You don't. 

    [01:06:41] Brad: You know?

    [01:06:41] And that's- 

    [01:06:42] Matt: That's one in 1,000, if that. 

    [01:06:44] Brad: It's so hard, and I knew that I had a really special relationship with those guys, and it was really hard 'cause obviously, like, all this time I'm talking to different people and they're like, "Fuck, cut and run." 

    [01:06:57] Hamish: I don't know how many times I 

    [01:06:58] Brad: drove to the airport. Yeah, I fucking leg it.

    [01:06:59] And let's just [01:07:00] be... We're now into 20- 

    [01:07:01] Hamish: Halfway 

    [01:07:02] Brad: through '

    [01:07:02] Matt: 26 ... 

    [01:07:03] Brad: 2026 almost now, yeah? Yeah. Like, with 

    [01:07:04] Matt: the, with the project stopped for eight months, roughly. 

    [01:07:06] Brad: Yeah, so I s- I- You're still not back there. Yeah. So, I stopped working at the beginning of January, and yeah, I just was toast. I was mentally absolutely fucking destroyed.

    [01:07:23] Um- Yeah. I knew by then I was... I, I knew mid, mid last year was probably, like, the worst it fucking got And you sought help at that point? Yeah, so it got really fucking bad. And, like, all this time I'm having... Like, I'm really candid about- 

    [01:07:44] Matt: You're gonna pack it 

    [01:07:45] Brad: in, you told me ... having conversations with people, like, asking for help, and, like, I was, like, properly asking for help.

    [01:07:52] Like, all through 2025. Was it 2025? Yeah. Yeah. I was actually saying to people, [01:08:00] "I'm fucked. I'm in a real bad way. I'm really fucked." Yeah, you were very open about it. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, with, like, family, friends, you know, whatever. I wasn't trying to shelter it. I was like, "I'm fucked. I'm physically-" What's fucked mean?

    [01:08:16] What do you mean by that? I just, like, you know, I couldn't think straight. You know, trying to get up every morning drag your ass to fucking work by yourself. Do- In, in the 

    [01:08:34] middle 

    [01:08:34] Hamish: of nowhere, 

    [01:08:35] Brad: by the way In the middle of nowhere In Utah Like, I'm isolated. There's no fucking town anywhere near it. You know, do all the work by yourself.

    [01:08:43] Know that you're not really getting paid enough. Then trying to get home and be a present father, you know, a good partner, get all the rest of your shit done, and there's f- [01:09:00] there's fucking nothing, you know. And I said, I said to Erica one day, I'm like, "Write down a list of the things that I've done for myself in the last...

    [01:09:11] Like, what the fuck is in this life for me?" And she just looked at me blank. And she's like, "You're right. I can't write anything down. I don't fucking know." Did 

    [01:09:18] Matt: you check out of life? 

    [01:09:20] Brad: Did I check out? Yeah. Probably. 

    [01:09:23] Matt: Had you had enough? 

    [01:09:24] Brad: Yeah. You know, and it's like, "Yeah, w- what do you want to do this weekend?"

    [01:09:28] "Nothing. I want to be left the fuck alone." I had nothing to give. You went back to 2016 Brad. Worse. Way... Significantly worse, you know? And I, and I was begging for help, like properly begging. 

    [01:09:43] Hamish: To Erica? 

    [01:09:44] Brad: Yeah. Fucking anyone that would- 

    [01:09:46] Hamish: Yeah ... 

    [01:09:46] Brad: anyone that would fucking ask, you know. Anyone that said, "How are you going?"

    [01:09:53] "Fucking shit. F- Really fucking, really fucking shit," you know? And yeah, [01:10:00] like a lot of it felt like it was just falling on deaf ears, you know? I looked at Erica one day And I said to her, I was like, "How rock bottom do you have to let me hit before you actually fucking help me?"

    [01:10:19] You know? And w- you know, we've had conversations since, you know, um, and, and you know, yeah, after that she w- she was like, "You need to go see someone again." And you know, I'm really thankful for, um, I'm really thankful for Jack

    [01:10:43] He, yeah. But she was like, "You gotta go see someone again." And I, I just remember thinking, like, "I don't fucking need to see anyone. I need some fucking help." You know? I know the person's gonna help me, but like I fu- I fucking need some money in the bank. I need this fucking [01:11:00] job to go. Like, I've got all these things in place where, like, I should be making money and things should be working out.

    [01:11:06] I've fucking punished myself for a fucking decade, worked my fucking ring off. You know, I've done all the fucking right things. Everything that someone says that you should do, you know, including asking for help. I'm going, "Fucking please fucking help me." You know? And Erica said to me, you know, maybe it was like early this year.

    [01:11:29] She's like, "You know, I thought that you were always speaking in hyperbole." Because I've ridden such a fucking rollercoaster for the whole time that we've been together, where I absolutely fucking peak it and then things work out. But it's like, it's not hyperbole, that's like sheer fucking panic, and it's legitimate panic.

    [01:11:52] And after that it just happens to work out. It doesn't just happen to work out, I fucking punish myself to make it work out, you know? [01:12:00] And so yeah, that was like a fucking really dark, hard period of my life where I was like, "Fuck, I've done everything. There's nothing in this fucking life for me. I don't have a fucking hobby."

    [01:12:14] And people are saying to me, "Oh, you need to do stuff for yourself." How? I'm fucking broke. I'm fucking broke, my body's fucked. What, like what am I supposed to do? You know? How, how do I help myself? I, I fucking don't know. You know? Yeah. And, uh, yeah, I, I went to see this guy James and, um- 

    [01:12:42] Matt: James is a psychologist

    [01:12:43] Brad: psychologist, yeah. You know, and, and even then I'm like, the first session I had with him, he's like, "Do you even wanna be here?" Like, I was so resentful. Um- 

    [01:12:52] Matt: As in life or as in, in with him there, like, as a psych- like a psychologist when he asked that question? Like, what do you [01:13:00] want- 

    [01:13:00] Brad: Do, do you wanna be 

    [01:13:01] Matt: here?

    [01:13:01] Brad: Yeah. Yeah, 'cause he knew Erica had made me go. 

    [01:13:04] Matt: Okay. Okay, so yeah, okay. 

    [01:13:05] Brad: So just my attitude walking in there, I was like, "I don't know why I'm fucking here. I just, I know what I need. I n- I need my fucking bills to be paid. I need just shit to just go my fucking way." You know? And thank fuck he just, you know- drummed into me, or, or you know, like, I don't know, not drummed into me, but like he just worked really hard at breaking down barriers.

    [01:13:33] And it was, you know, the hardest, one of the hardest things with that was I'm now taking a fucking half a day off and spending 200 bucks that I don't fucking have to get help. I'm already fucking broke. And when I say broke, I mean like the only thing that kept the roof over my head was the fact that I worked my fucking arse off to have a heap of money in an offset account, because I was no longer paying myself [01:14:00] any salary out of the business.

    [01:14:01] I was only giving money to Erica out of the business. I wasn't paying the fucking mortgage. I was just watching my offset account deplete You know, the only thing in that period that stopped me from going absolutely fucking broke was the fact that thank fuck I've only ever bought shit with money that's mine, and I had no debt except for the mortgage You know, um, mid '25 before shit got really bad, I wrote my caravan off.

    [01:14:36] And that was the last thing that I had that was like, here's this massive memory that I've got, you know, of something that I built with Joe that was like every time I went in the shed, I was like, "Yeah, that's, you know, there's a reward of my hard work." And I fucking, I wrote the fucking thing off. 

    [01:14:57] Matt: So you lost everything.

    [01:14:59] You [01:15:00] had- Yep ... you had the family. 

    [01:15:01] Brad: And then it's like, you know, just all these constant reminders of like unfinished fucking jobs, shit that I've never done. You know, every time I go in the shed, the fucking caravan's gone, you know? And when you're having conversations with people and they're like, "Oh, but you should be glad that you've got all these fucking tools," it's like, okay, I've got a short-term tax-deductible fucking dopamine hit.

    [01:15:26] Happy fucking days. But also I need them 

    [01:15:27] Matt: to do my job. 

    [01:15:28] Brad: Yeah. And it's like, yeah, but like what... You know, and it's really through that period where I was like, what, what is there that's actually for, for me, that's not work-related, that's just for me, you know? And it was, yeah, all these conversations were like, "Well, you must be so proud that you can, you know, support your family."

    [01:15:48] I am. I'm fucking very proud that I can support my family, but that doesn't change the fact that I'm fucking miserable. 

    [01:15:54] Matt: You're allowed to feel shit. Yeah. Like, that's the thing. I think sometimes in those circumstances is- Yeah. There's, 

    [01:15:59] Brad: there has [01:16:00] to be something in life for you. Have you found that? No. No. So I, I went to see James.

    [01:16:11] Things went really well with him. Um, it looked like this job was gonna be kicking back off again. We're 

    [01:16:20] Matt: in early... 

    [01:16:21] Brad: Late '25. 

    [01:16:22] Matt: Okay, yep. 

    [01:16:23] Brad: No. 

    [01:16:24] Matt: Early '26. What 

    [01:16:25] Brad: are we now? 

    [01:16:26] Matt: Early '26 it was. 

    [01:16:27] Brad: Yeah. So this was, yeah, this would've been late 2025. January. Yeah. And I, I was in... I felt like I was in a good mental space, and I was like, "Cool."

    [01:16:37] So I stopped seeing James. Um, yeah, I'd sort of worked through a lot of things to help me understand, you know, what got me there mentally. Um, and then, yeah, I was like, "Cool, this job's gonna go. Like, all my stress is gonna be relieved. Like, w- we're all good." And [01:17:00] then I got the news that the job wasn't gonna be ready to go 'cause this business sale had been delayed again.

    [01:17:06] So this was like December, just before Christmas. And I was like, "All right. Fuck." And I just fucking spiraled, to be honest. Um- And yeah, so I was like, "I, I, I fucking can't, I can't keep going like this." So I was like, "I'm just gonna take some time off." They got told that the business sale was gonna settle mid-March, uh, end of March.

    [01:17:34] So I was like, "Well, I'm just fucking hanging it up till March." And, um, yeah, a month into me taking a mental health break, fucking Bax took his own life. 

    [01:17:45] Matt: Do you want to give context who Bax was? 

    [01:17:48] Brad: Who Bax, um, is one of my closest friends, and through this whole putrid, shitty period of my life, he was actually probably really the only person that I [01:18:00] socialised with, like that I actually went and caught up and had beers with just 'cause we're fucking friends.

    [01:18:06] You know, not 'cause of work or not 'cause someone wanted something or a favour or, you know. And he was, you know, the electrician on my projects and, and, and yours as well, Matty. And like I'd had some real fucking deep chats with him, and I remember having a conversation with him like mid-December and just being like, "Why the fuck are we doing this to ourselves?"

    [01:18:33] W- well, like, what do we do this... W- why? You know? And talking about, you know, like- 

    [01:18:39] Matt: Did you get an answer on why? 

    [01:18:41] Brad: No. No, you just do it 'cause you've fucking, you've fucking strapped yourself into this fucking rollercoaster. Like, what choice have you got? 

    [01:18:49] Matt: And ironically, he was the one person that would sit there and listen.

    [01:18:52] Brad: He was the best, you know? Um, and that- You know, [01:19:00] it scared the fucking shit out of me, that moment 

    [01:19:06] Matt: Or before it? 

    [01:19:07] Brad: No, like when he did it, it was like f- it sc- it genuinely scared the absolute fucking living daylights out of me. And I ranked James and I went back to see James, and I was just like, "How fucking close was I?"

    [01:19:25] Matt: I remember calling you that day. 

    [01:19:29] Brad: Like, I'm pretty calm, like, when I get shit news. Like, if shit hits the fan, like, I'm the fucking person you want to be around. Like, I'm- 

    [01:19:35] Matt: You were calm. When I called you to let you know, you were calm. 

    [01:19:37] Hamish: I'm- I think I'd talked to you just after it- Yeah ... that he'd taken his own life.

    [01:19:39] I ca- I 

    [01:19:39] Matt: ph- Yeah ... look, I remember finding out, my first person I called was Julie, and go, "Put a team in front of me, and how do I deal with this?" Like, my cousin's taken her own life. It kind of ha- unfortunately, you have a bit of experience on how to navigate this situation, but it's a little bit different when, when you're a boss and you...

    [01:19:54] The first time you're kind of a little bit naive about it. The second time you know what happens. You know the [01:20:00] story. You know this is it. I just, I, I wasn't... I was, like, shocked that it was him, but I wasn't shocked. 

    [01:20:10] Brad: You know? Like- 

    [01:20:10] Hamish: Were you... Sorry to interrupt. Were you... In that moment, did you have this realization that, like, you could see how you could get there?

    [01:20:21] Brad: Yeah. Did you think that would be you?

    [01:20:27] N- but I don't, I don't know if you'll ever understand enough. Like, is it, is it like a gradual road that you go down to get there or is it 

    [01:20:38] Matt: Only those who do it know. Yeah. 

    [01:20:40] Hamish: Don't 

    [01:20:40] Brad: know. Nobody knows, 'cause no one's around to fucking tell the tale, are they? 

    [01:20:43] Matt: Well, part because, like, what I've learned out of it is that everyone...

    [01:20:51] There, there are different diseases out there. You can have cancer, you can have cardiovascular disease, and you can do everything you can to get over it. You can do the treatment. [01:21:00] Sometimes that treatment doesn't work, and unfortunately it gets you. I, I think in this case that was that. 

    [01:21:07] Hamish: Yeah, and again, it's really hard to, to actually really understand what one went through Bax's mind, 'cause I think I'd...

    [01:21:14] And again, I, I don't, I don't know him well enough to 

    [01:21:15] Brad: make comments on it. Yeah, I, I, I can't... Yeah. It's, it's hard. It's... Yeah. Um, yeah. 

    [01:21:20] Hamish: So we're 

    [01:21:20] Brad: s- I, I, I don't know. I know that we'd had a lot of conversations around, like, how much pressure there is in your life and, you know, I've had these conversations, um, w- with Erica and certainly her, um...

    [01:21:38] No, attitude's not the right word. So like at Bax's funeral a couple of... 'Cause Bax was like really close friends with my school friends as well. Um, a couple of the boys said to Erica, "After this happens you look around at other people in your life and wonder if they're the same." [01:22:00] And they were referring to me.

    [01:22:02] Um, and it's like that's pretty fucking confronting, you know? Um... 

    [01:22:11] Hamish: Can I be honest with you? We were worried. 

    [01:22:14] Brad: We've had conversations. Yeah. Yeah, out of a good place, though. 

    [01:22:18] Hamish: Yeah. 

    [01:22:18] Brad: Like, that's a, that's a, that's- Yeah, I know. I know. And it's like, you know, this is the thing, it's like I've landed in this fucking little bubble where, like, I had such an amazing support network of people around me that just wholeheartedly have my back regardless, you know?

    [01:22:40] And, you know, um, yeah. W- when we went to the, you know, bloody retreat or whatever, like obviously at that point everyone well and truly knew that I was in a fucking bad way. And you know, I just feel [01:23:00] so grateful that I had a, a bunch of friends that were like, "Hey, let's go do this, you know-" thing, um, whatever, whatever you call it 

    [01:23:12] Hamish: Fire and ice 

    [01:23:13] Brad: Yeah 

    [01:23:13] Hamish: Breathing fucking 

    [01:23:15] Brad: Yeah.

    [01:23:16] And, um, you know, it's like, yeah, we went and sat in a fucking tent or lay down in a fucking tent, and, you know, everyone was... I don't know if everyone cried, but, um, yeah, it's just crazy that that's the thing. And I just remember feeling like this fucking, like, almost like guilt that, like, I've got this and it's, you know, probably a huge thing that's kept me going And it's like everyone fucking loved Bax.

    [01:23:52] Like, he's a fucking absolute legend of a fucking 

    [01:23:55] Matt: bloke. That's an understatement too. Like, that, i- it- Like ... it actually, like, that comment doesn't do it justice. It's like, [01:24:00] it's the... He was the type of person everyone loved. 

    [01:24:02] Brad: Yeah. 

    [01:24:02] Matt: Like, like- Yeah ... he's just that person. 

    [01:24:04] Brad: Yeah, and he just put all his energy into fucking everyone around him.

    [01:24:08] Um, you know, and yeah, I, it's just So where are you now? Um, I've actually, actually been in a pretty good place. So after, after Bax I, I actually got really f- physically sick. Um, I had, like, the most intense fucking brain fog. Um, I just was, like, really fucking unwell. Um, almost like my body was just shut down.

    [01:24:42] Was like, you know... Um, yeah, this is it, and I, and I was like, "Yep, I can't keep doing what, what I'm doing. I gotta figure out what's right for me." Um... This project looks like it's kicking off. [01:25:00] 

    [01:25:00] Matt: Like, it's a positive move. 

    [01:25:01] Brad: Yeah, so I think, like, the biggest thing for me is I just, you know, had this epiphany that it's like, it's not worth it, you know?

    [01:25:12] Um, I don't give a fuck if I, it doesn't work out for me running my own show. I couldn't give a shit. I'd rather be happy than miserable with my own fucking business. You know? And I, again, very lucky for people, you know, like you, Hamish, and, and Carl Zannetto's been fucking amazing to where I, I've got the fucking backup plan sorted now.

    [01:25:40] You know? I... That whole stress is- 

    [01:25:43] Hamish: Back off, Carl. He's mine. 

    [01:25:45] Brad: Yeah. That whole- I thought he was working for me. He's closer to my house ... that whole- ... that whole stress around what I'm gonna do, you know? We've sat down, I've had the hard conversations, you know, with Erica around, you know, um- What [01:26:00] 

    [01:26:00] Matt: happens next? 

    [01:26:00] Brad: Yeah.

    [01:26:01] What are, what are our options, you 

    [01:26:05] Hamish: know? I... Can I, can I s- stop for one sec? I think one of the things that I just want to point out, one, from the outside looking in, I've seen a shift. 

    [01:26:12] Brad: Yeah. Yeah. 

    [01:26:13] Hamish: I've seen a massive shift in what you're focusing on. Like, I guess I can see stuff that's happening inside Future Builder.

    [01:26:19] I can see the vulnerability that you're showing to the group in just asking what would be pretty sort of preschool kind of questions, but just owning it, and then the amount of people that are jumping in and saying, "This is what you do. This is what you do. Give me a call," like, "I've got your back," and, like, all the support that's in there.

    [01:26:35] Brad: Yeah. 

    [01:26:35] Hamish: And actually seeing you grab it, and then implement it, and actually start to become a builder. 

    [01:26:40] Brad: Yeah. 

    [01:26:40] Hamish: Which I think's been an incredible shift, and I know how difficult it's been, because you've had this personality or persona for so long of being Brad, the guy on site that solves problems and just fucking works his arse off- 

    [01:26:51] Brad: Yeah

    [01:26:52] Hamish: to being a little bit more dialled in or focused on the whole business side of it. 

    [01:26:57] Brad: Yeah. And it's like I've al-... The business side [01:27:00] of things has always been in the back of my mind, and whatever, and you know? But trying to find, trying to find the energy- Or be in the mental space to actually do things when you're so f- fucked is so hard, you know?

    [01:27:25] And yeah, when people are like, you know, and obviously people say things with, you know, genuine intent, um, you know, or, or they are, like, genuinely helpful. It's so hard not to be irrationally angry about things because it's like, yeah, I know I need to do these things, but, like, I, I don't have any time. I'm fucking broke as shit, you know?

    [01:27:50] So when it's like, "Oh, get this program to, you know, do this," or, "Why don't you, why don't you get a VA?" Or, "Why don't you..." Yeah, great fucking [01:28:00] ideas if I had two fucking pennies to rub together. Great fucking ideas. And, you know, you get, you get really irrationally angry. Um, I said, Derek, I was gonna mention this on the podcast.

    [01:28:13] Um, I got angry at you, Hamish, one day. I was at fucking Coles, and I was like- I'd been, you know, I'd put on a bit of weight after my accident. It was, like, really hard to shake. And there's a lot of, like, little things, you know, now looking back, you know, there's so many little things that have contributed to, like, how my mental health's been.

    [01:28:35] I don't think there was any, like, one catalyst thing that was like, "This is catastrophic." It was just that, you know, everything just kept chipping away at me, and chipping away at me, and chipping away at me. And, like, you can only be so resilient for so long before you're just like, "Pff, I'm done." 

    [01:28:52] Matt: Yeah. 

    [01:28:53] Brad: And we had a Monday mastermind and it was some fucking nutritionist or whatever and, you [01:29:00] know.

    [01:29:00] All these things, you know, like we had another one that was like, "You know, get all your bloods tested, 'cause you're, youse are all old fuckers and you gotta look after yourself." And I'm like, "These things are great, but I'm just, like, spiraling, going like, 'I wanna fucking die before I can afford to get my bloods done.'"

    [01:29:14] You know, pay two grand to, you know, do some testing. And so I was like, "What, what can I do?" And I'm like, "I can fucking eat healthy." And so I messaged you, Hamish. I was like, "What do you eat for breakfast?" And you're like, "Oh, I've got this great fucking nutritionist," you know. Which was like all awesome advice, and I'm just like, "Fuck, just tell me what you ate for breakfast."

    [01:29:24] You know.

    [01:29:33] And now I look back and I was like, "That was so irrational to be mad," 'cause Hamish was actually being fucking amazing. Um, but when you're like that, it's so fucking hard to make changes, you know, to, to help you. To help you, yeah. You know. And now I look at it and I go, "Fuck, I ChatGPT to fucking diet, and I've been following it and I've lost eight kilos."

    [01:29:59] Matt: Mm. [01:30:00] Yeah, awesome. 

    [01:30:00] Brad: And it's such an easy step, but it wasn't fucking easy in the midst of being so fucked up by everything. Are 

    [01:30:09] Matt: you proud of yourself? 

    [01:30:11] Brad: Yeah, I'm pretty proud of myself, yeah. And not just 

    [01:30:15] Matt: for this or whatever, but everything. Good. I hoped you'd say that answer. I- I, 

    [01:30:21] Hamish: I, I just, I just wanna point out something.

    [01:30:23] There was, uh... And I think every fucking person has seen this on social media, and if you haven't, I don't know, you're under a blog, uh, under a rock somewhere. Brad did this the most amazing post last week, the reel last week, the one where he was talking about interior designers. And I remember watching it, and I remember thinking to myself, "Fucking Brad's back."

    [01:30:44] Like, this is not the Brad that I've seen the last two years 

    [01:30:46] Matt: The wanky door handle one. Yeah. 

    [01:30:47] Hamish: But this is Brad. This is, this is the Brad that- Yeah ... like, is engaging, who's just- Yeah ... endearing, who's just so- Shit from the hip ... unashamedly Brad. 

    [01:30:55] Brad: Yeah, 

    [01:30:55] Hamish: yeah. And I'm like, I haven't seen that in two years. And now to see it, [01:31:00] and then to see how buoyed you're getting from people, like, jumping in and re-sharing it, not that it's about that- 

    [01:31:05] Brad: Mm

    [01:31:06] Hamish: but just about, you know, that you can... Y- you, you have good things that are coming to you, and you deserve good things. 

    [01:31:12] Brad: Yeah. 

    [01:31:13] Hamish: Like, and I, and I, I think that was, I, I don't know, from the outside looking in, was something that could be, like, this catalyst to take- Mm ... the next step- 

    [01:31:22] Brad: Yeah ... 

    [01:31:22] Hamish: in a really positive way.

    [01:31:23] Brad: I, I really hope that things have turned around for me, and I actually had a few people message me and say the same sort of thing, that like, "You know, we've noticed a real difference in you." Um, you know, like, my school friends have said to Erica, like, "Oh, we can see a real difference in him." Obviously, like, you know, she can tell.

    [01:31:42] Um, yeah, things have really turned around and now hopefully I'll be back on site at, at Bubs shortly and, you know, there's some really good things in the, in the pipeline with, with those guys, um, and for the future, and I- I'll 

    [01:31:57] Hamish: just cross him off my employee list 

    [01:31:58] Brad: You know Damn it, 

    [01:31:59] Hamish: [01:32:00] Brad's gone. He can still 

    [01:32:00] Matt: work for me.

    [01:32:02] But yeah, you know, I got one final question. Knowing what you know now, and your son hypothetically is about to start an apprenticeship at the age of 18, what would you tell him? 

    [01:32:17] Brad: I commented this on, um, maybe it was one of Hoppo's posts, just like, it's so important to understand how to communicate effectively with other people, you know?

    [01:32:32] Matt: Not just on site. 

    [01:32:33] Brad: In life. Yeah. You know, like, a, a huge part of me feeling so shit was that I felt like I'm telling everyone how much I'm struggling, and mostly, like, immediate family and my partner, and they're fucking not hearing what I'm saying, but I'm saying it fucking directly. How more [01:33:00] directly can I say it?

    [01:33:02] But because of how I'd communicated things for so long, always in these fucking, yeah, like in the midst of being in the fight or flight, you know- 

    [01:33:14] Matt: Mm ... 

    [01:33:14] Brad: um, things, like they weren't truly understanding- 

    [01:33:19] Matt: You ... 

    [01:33:19] Brad: where I was coming from, you know? Th- all the communication that they had got from me previously was that, yeah, he has a bit of a fucking vent and whatever, and then a few days later it's sorted out, or a few weeks later it's- Mm

    [01:33:33] it's sorted out, you know? Um, yeah, so it's like understanding different people's personalities, how they communicate, how they, you know, give out information, how they receive that information. Um, you know, and like I'm very thankful that Erica is such a, a patient person. You know, there's certainly been a lot of [01:34:00] times, you know, especially like early on in our relationship where like, yeah, she probably should have just fucking legged it, you know?

    [01:34:10] Um, but she didn't, and yeah, she's always encouraged me to, um, you know, do better, I guess. Um, you know, and she's, she's always been extremely pragmatic in understanding, you know, when we eventually are able to have these difficult conversations in a calm manner, she's like, "Yeah, I can see, you know, how, you know, you would have been feeling in that- 

    [01:34:42] Matt: Mm

    [01:34:43] Brad: exact moment," or whatever, you know? And even like talking about, you know, like pressure, you know? Like she's pretty desperate to have another kid, um, and I've sort of been a little bit of a fence sitter a- a- about it. [01:35:00] Um, you know, and, and she said to me, a lot of times she's like, "Oh, I'm not putting any pressure on you."

    [01:35:06] And I'm like, "Well, you're not saying to me directly, knock me up." But you know, when it looked like things were gonna be back on track at Bubs ages ago, the prenatal fucking- 

    [01:35:24] Hamish: Vitamins ... 

    [01:35:24] Brad: vitamins pop up in the fucking fridge. So it's like I open the fridge in the morning to, you know, whatever, and it's fucking staring me in the face.

    [01:35:30] Like, you don't have to tell me that you- Just ... wanna do that. I inherently know that you wanna do that. Yeah. You know? The pressure from needing to pay a bill, even if someone doesn't send me a fucking bill, I know it's coming. 

    [01:35:42] Hamish: Yeah. 

    [01:35:43] Brad: Like, it doesn't go away. 

    [01:35:44] Hamish: Yep. 

    [01:35:44] Brad: You know? And th- and that's, that's the thing, you know?

    [01:35:47] When you've got this, like, mounting continuous pressure, people think because it's not directly said to you that it's not there. 

    [01:35:57] Matt: Mm. 

    [01:35:57] Brad: But it, it, it fucking is, you [01:36:00] know what I mean? Like, you know, there's been times where, like at the, um- Yeah, early, early this year I had to go to Anglesey for work, 'cause it was like that was what was on offer.

    [01:36:14] I fucking needed to pay the bills. That's what I gotta do. But Flynn wouldn't fucking talk to me, you know? So it's like, well- Mm ... I know this is what I have to do He, he doesn't get it, you know? I know it's hard for Erica when she's on her own with a kid on their own, especially Flynn past 5:00, um, has a, you know, a different persona come out.

    [01:36:43] Um, you know, so it's like, "Fuck, I've gotta leave behind my family to go and do this because I know it's what I have to do," you know? Erica hasn't forced me to do it, Flynn hasn't forced me to do it, you know? But that pressure's [01:37:00] there. Yeah. 

    [01:37:01] Matt: Just thank you for sharing. It's- 

    [01:37:02] Hamish: From- Yeah ... yeah, from my side, I don't know how hard it would be to come in here and, you know, just be so open and vulnera- vulnerable about this.

    [01:37:08] And I know that people that are listening to this now, uh, you know, the la- the... I- i- if the only thing they take away from it is that, you know, resilience, you know, is there, and resilience can get you through stuff, and there's, there's always people around you to, to help you get through shit, which I know, which I hope you can see- 

    [01:37:28] Brad: Yeah

    [01:37:28] Hamish: with the group of people that we've got around us, so. 

    [01:37:30] Brad: Yeah, for sure. I, like, you know, I just wanted to talk about it 'cause I've, I've spoken to a lot of people over the last couple of years, and always been pretty open about things. Um, and I've had a few comments from people that like, "Oh, hey, we really appreciate that, that you've said these things.

    [01:37:49] I haven't had these conversations with anyone else." Obviously, there's, you know, a huge thing around mental health in our industry, um, and you know, we have all these [01:38:00] conversations around check in with your mates, make sure they're okay or whatever, but there's not many people that are actually genuinely having these conversations and being open and honest- 

    [01:38:10] Hamish: Mm

    [01:38:10] Brad: with this is exactly how I feel, you know? People might say, "Yeah, I'm struggling a little bit," but you know, for the most part, people fob it off. 

    [01:38:20] Hamish: I think, think the thing is, like, if, if, if someone is having that conversation with, really listen. Yeah. 'Cause I think you, you can, you can quite easily, um, just sort of dismiss it.

    [01:38:28] Matt: Thank you. 

    [01:38:29] Hamish: Thanks, Brad.

Matthew Carland
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We Got Challenged on Everything We Believe