The builder everyone should strive to be

"I had to sell personal belongings just to make payroll." 

Luke Davies isn't ashamed to admit the early struggles of his construction business. From a dairy farm in Sheffield, Tasmania, to running successful building and architecture enterprises, Luke's journey demonstrates what happens when resilience meets strategic learning. We sat down with Luke to understand how he transformed early failures into a thriving business model that's now helping other builders avoid the same mistakes.

Starting Out: Foundations in Building

Luke always knew he wanted to work with his hands. Unlike many who struggle finding their path, carpentry called to him early. However, school presented challenges he didn't understand until years later when his son's diagnosis revealed Luke's own dyslexia. This revelation explained why traditional education never suited him, but it never hindered his ambition or ultimate success.

Growing up in small-town Tasmania provided a foundation in hard work and practical skills. These early experiences shaped his approach to business to be hands-on, pragmatic, and focused on tangible results rather than traditional “book smarts”.

Learning from Mistakes

Luke started his construction journey with big dreams, only to discover a sobering statistic: 90% of building companies fail within the first five years due to a lack of guidance. Despite winning awards in 2012, his company faced serious financial difficulties. The thrill of winning early construction jobs quickly became a crash course in business reality. Cash flow management, accurate pricing, and proper business processes were entirely new territories.

These setbacks fueled determination rather than defeat. Determined to find a better way, Luke hired a business coach to explore his personal ambitions and redefine his business's direction. This decision became transformative. He immersed himself in learning through audiobooks and networking, building a resource network that would eventually steer his companies toward success. The key was acknowledging what he didn't know and actively seeking solutions.

Bridging Architects and Builders

Through coaching and reflection, Luke discovered the impact of living spaces on wellbeing. This realisation shifted his entire business philosophy. He learned to lead and deliver exceptional experiences within fixed budgets and timelines, but more importantly, he understood that it's not just about the physical structure; it's about how a home makes you feel.

Luke identified a market gap and pursued design-and-construct models, effectively bridging the often-distant worlds of architects and builders. At Davies Construction, Luke and his team now prioritise designing spaces that reflect each client's unique lifestyle and wellness. They understand that building a home is an investment in family and personal potential, creating environments that foster creativity and groundedness.

The success of this approach led him to form separate entities: Davies Construction and Align Architecture. This evolution wasn't arbitrary - it represented strategic thinking based on lessons learned about how to structure businesses for optimal client service and meaningful outcomes.

Future Builder: Sharing the Wealth of Knowledge

Perhaps Luke's most significant contribution is Future Builder, an educational platform equipping builders with practical tools and resources. Having experienced firsthand how a lack of guidance contributes to the 90% failure rate, Luke created the support system he wished he'd had starting out.

Recognising how important community is for builders, Luke fostered an environment where shared challenges and collective problem-solving replace industry competition. Whether serving young builders just starting or seasoned professionals seeking improvement, Future Builder has become a collaboration hub in an industry that used to operate in isolation.

Beyond building his businesses, Luke has authored a book “𝘿𝙧𝙚𝙖𝙢 𝙃𝙤𝙢𝙚: 𝙏𝙝𝙚 𝙖𝙧𝙩 𝙤𝙛 𝙗𝙪𝙞𝙡𝙙𝙞𝙣𝙜 𝙖 𝙨𝙖𝙣𝙘𝙩𝙪𝙖𝙧𝙮 𝙛𝙤𝙧 𝙢𝙤𝙙𝙚𝙧𝙣, 𝙝𝙚𝙖𝙡𝙩𝙝𝙮 𝙡𝙞𝙫𝙞𝙣𝙜” and continues influencing the construction industry through innovation and communication. His impact extends beyond his own projects to shaping how future generations of builders approach their businesses and understand their true purpose.

For builders facing the daunting 90% failure statistic, Luke's story offers practical lessons: admit what you don't know, invest in coaching and education, understand that building is about more than construction and recognise that homes profoundly impact the people living in them.

Luke's evolution from struggling award-winner to successful business owner and industry educator proves that construction entrepreneurship requires more than technical skills. Understanding the deeper purpose of creating spaces that enhance wellbeing, combined with business acumen and community engagement, separates thriving businesses from those that become statistics.

If you’d like to submit a question for us to discuss on the podcast, reach out to us on Instagram.

LINKS:

Luke’s Book:

https://www.amazon.com.au/Dream-Home-building-sanctuary-healthy/dp/1781338779

Davies Construction Instagram:

https://www.instagram.com/daviesconstructiontas

Connect with us on Instagram:  @themindfulbuilderpod

Connect with Hamish:

Instagram:  @sanctumhomes

Website:   www.yoursanctum.com.au/

Connect with Matt: 

Instagram: @carlandconstructions

Website:  www.carlandconstructions.com/

• FULL TRANSCRIPT

  [00:00:00] Hamish: I reckon. Um, probably the easiest thing to start off with this podcast is just working out what Luke Davies doesn't do. What I don't do What you don't do.

  [00:00:08] Hamish: Yeah. Don't do lots of things. Architecture Firm 

  [00:00:11] Matt: Builder, written a book. What else? 

  [00:00:13] Hamish: Uh, future build. Oh, we're Future Builder. Yeah. Future Builder. Yep. Representing the Future Builder. Yep. Developer dad, health expert, author, educator, Luke, great to have you.

  [00:00:24] Hamish: Thanks Hamish. Health 

  [00:00:25] Matt: expert. I wanna know more on this one. 

  [00:00:26] Luke: Health deep diving down. Health now turn 40. Yeah, I've, I've, I've noticed had chats. Yep. Longevity protocols and really preventative healthcare. 

  [00:00:35] Hamish: I wish you hadn't have said this 'cause I reckon this is just gonna hijack the rest of this conversation. Are you, like, 

  [00:00:39] Matt: what, what's your biggest few things at the moment? You're doing I'm doing nothing as you can see. 

  [00:00:43] Hamish: Yep, yep. 

  [00:00:44] Luke: Um, he can say that, Matt, that he was acknowledging that. Yeah, actually, well, uh, yesterday we were over for the art business and AI Summit.

  [00:00:51] Luke: Yep. And the day before that I come over a bit earlier and went to a company called Ever Labs Yep. And did a full body DEXA scan. bone density, and, yep. All your, your [00:01:00] body, uh, fat composition, composition and all that type of stuff. Um, the VO two max test. Put mask on. How'd you go and run?

  [00:01:06] Luke: It killed me. It's hard work 

  [00:01:08] Hamish: thought because don't they say that, that your VO two max is such a really great indicator of your longevity, that blood pressure, seeing, 

  [00:01:15] Luke: seeing the stats. Yeah. Done Blood, blood pressure. Um, done all the blood work. Yeah. Um, you do some you pushups and balance tests and weight tests.

  [00:01:23] Luke: So it sets all the baseline for your, all your biomarkers. Yeah. Um, and then they, their platform gives you like a, you know, they use AI and they bring in consultants and gives you sort of a tailored plan. Wow. A DNA testing for the right supplements to match sort of your DNA profile. Amazing. Is it expensive 

  [00:01:39] Matt: or?

  [00:01:39] Matt: It's pretty well priced. 

  [00:01:40] Luke: Uh, the DNA test, maybe 800 bucks. Yeah. Which is, you go anywhere, that's what's gonna pass. And the, so when you say DN, this other one was a three grand test for, for the full year of, um, like the full body stuff. You can do full cancer scans and all that type of stuff, if you wanted to get into that as well with, 

  [00:01:54] Hamish: with the D When you say DNA testing, is that just blood tests?

  [00:01:58] Hamish: Um, you send [00:02:00] away a swab of your 

  [00:02:01] Luke: mouth, your DNA. Yeah. Okay. And it's like they looking for risk factors, methation 

  [00:02:05] Matt: and risk markers essentially. Yeah. So like, are you at a higher risk of say, developing Alzheimer's? Yeah. Okay. And then you could say, well, if you are, you can do things to prevent, potentially prevent it.

  [00:02:15] Hamish: Because I did, I did. I got my bloods done this year and it sort of testing, you know, I guess fat, cholesterol, testosterone, all that kind of stuff. Um, so it's different 

  [00:02:25] Luke: to that. Yeah. Yeah. It's definitely different. That, and what they're trying to do is just match the supplementation that your body needs based on your DNA because 

  [00:02:32] Matt: everyone's different.

  [00:02:34] Hamish: What's this place called again? Ever lab. 

  [00:02:36] Matt: Ever lab. All, yeah. Loose new business. Yeah. Have you got share? Does 

  [00:02:41] Hamish: have you got shares in that one? Good. Um, look, 

  [00:02:43] Luke: it's way of the future. There's lots of, yeah. Lots of, um, personalized preventative healthcare happening and lots of Yeah, right. There's a good book on it.

  [00:02:50] Luke: A health wave. 

  [00:02:51] Matt: Oh, it's an awesome book on this. I read over Christmas. Um. Oh, I've gotta find this what it is now, practically. Like it's, yeah, futuristic. It's like [00:03:00] Medicine 3.0. Yeah, that's, it's preventative. Like for example, I've got high cholesterol, so it's like, get on the tablet now. Like why wait till you're 50 when you've already got more plaque built up?

  [00:03:09] Matt: Just start now. Yeah. 

  [00:03:10] Hamish: Right. Yeah. 

  [00:03:11] Matt: I'm gonna find the book. 

  [00:03:11] Hamish: So I mean, I mean, you just, just literally starting the, the conversation off around the fact that you're doing this probably is a good indication of a lot of the things that you do, but can you go back for people who Dunno, you like, so the book's called Outlive The Science of Art and Longevity.

  [00:03:28] Hamish: There we go. Or I'm gonna get that one. Um, yeah, maybe just give the audience a bit of a snapshot of who you are and where you've come from. Yeah, no 

  [00:03:36] Luke: worries. So, um, originally born and bred in a little town called Sheffield in Tasmania. Um, grew up on dairy farms, with my parents. Um, they were sort of share farmers, so we moved around the state in Tassie.

  [00:03:48] Luke: And, um, yeah, always loved sort of working my hands. Always knew I wanted to be a carpenter, you know, I never had to try and work out what I wanted to be going through school. Um, wasn't, wasn't that good at school. [00:04:00] Yep. I think it's a, like a common, common thread to the more and more builders I talk to, dyslexic.

  [00:04:05] Luke: I found out later on in life as well. Yeah. 

  [00:04:07] Hamish: And at what point did you find out you were dyslexic? 

  [00:04:09] Luke: Uh, when I got my son tested. Okay. It's usually the trigger is, and I'm thinking, you know, 'cause I thought I was just stupid at school. I couldn't, I I was good at some stuff, but yeah. You know, not others. I'm still at, I'm still not a very good reader, even though I've written a book and yeah.

  [00:04:23] Luke: I do find we, we will, we'll get to at the, because like, I feel 

  [00:04:25] Matt: like when you say, are you stupid and smart? There's things you're probably good at that just at, I know we at school. So maths, English, like they're just things that you weren't interested in. 

  [00:04:34] Luke: Yeah. Um, well the woodwork and the, and the texts.

  [00:04:37] Luke: The tech stuff and the woodwork. Metalwork, yep. Um, excelled at that. Yep. Um, just, you know, the physical stuff, the sports and was okay at math. But all the other stuff I was interested but just couldn't, couldn't, uh, engage in it. straight outta school 16, couldn't get an apprenticeship. So I done a, um, TAFE course into, got into furniture making.

  [00:04:55] Luke: Yep. So I went through that and sort of learned a bit of stuff about the finer [00:05:00] art of timber and had to read the grain of timber and sharp and tools and all that cool stuff. Yep. And then got a little gig as a, as a sort of a joiner who offered me a traineeship. And then at the same time I got offered an apprenticeship in, um, as a carpenter joiner.

  [00:05:14] Luke: And I took that, um, took that opportunity and sort of grown from there. 

  [00:05:18] Matt: we've asked this before, how do you identify yourself? Like, what's, what are you as a, a job. 

  [00:05:24] Luke: Entrepreneur. Okay. Because we, we, 

  [00:05:27] Matt: we constantly ask the question to this, and it's like, people go, I'm a carpenter. They still refer back to I'm a carpenter.

  [00:05:32] Matt: Yeah. I 

  [00:05:32] Luke: do. I still have that on my, I still like to, I'm proud to say I'm a carpenter. Yep. That definitely doesn't get overridden with anything else I do in life. And I think a lot of us forget about that. 'cause it is a really, because great skill to have. 

  [00:05:43] Hamish: yeah. But you do a lot of other things. I mean, um, and I mean, I, I know your story 'cause we've been mates for a while, but you, you know, you got into being a builder and you've made mistakes and you've, you know, learned, obviously sitting where you are now, you've learned a lot of those mistakes.

  [00:05:58] Hamish: And now with Future Builder you are, um, [00:06:00] educating people on arguably you making those mistakes. So maybe just talk about you could of going from being a carpenter and into like starting your own business as a builder. 

  [00:06:09] Luke: went through the standard sort of apprenticeship, um, route. And then with my current boss, um, I stayed with him for another sort of three years.

  [00:06:18] Luke: Um, I was running projects probably in my third year of apprenticeship. Um, just, yeah, loved, loved, loved high quality stuff, loved the type of work we'd done. Loved the, the guys that I worked with and the community. So just super passionate about, um, the building in my local area. And there was, I talked to my boss a few times about potential opportunities 'cause I wanted more places to grow and there, there wasn't anywhere for me to sort of fit into his, his plan.

  [00:06:43] Luke: So it was only me and him when we started. And we grew the team to about 10 while I was there. Wow. And then, um, I ended up leaving, one of my mates just rang me up one day and said, I'm going out on my own, decided to do this. And something just flicked in my head and it's like, well, I could do that as well.

  [00:06:57] Luke: Mm. Um, and then yeah, sort of went out on my [00:07:00] own. But before that I'd already been, I'd already got my builder's accreditation. Okay. Just as something to do. Um, did you 

  [00:07:06] Matt: study whilst you were doing your apprenticeship? Like did you do night school to further educate yourself or did you just go home and that was it?

  [00:07:15] Luke: Um, I did my Cert IV just off, off my own back. Yeah. Um, I was going, you know, sort of the end of my apprenticeship. Yep. Yep. And then after that, like I said, I just had, um, I was home, I was injured after a motorbike accident and I had nothing to do. So Really, so I went through and got my Yeah. Builder's, um, yeah.

  [00:07:30] Luke: Accreditation, even though I was working for another boss. 'cause I always knew I, even if I was working for him, I wanted to build and try and build some wealth through Yeah. You know, building my own projects and you can only do like two in 10 years Homeowner builder back then. Yep. So I thought at least if I get my, um, accreditation, I can, you know, maybe, um, build my own projects on the weekends, maybe one a year and try and get ahead.

  [00:07:51] Luke: Build, build. Just build a house on the weekend. Yeah. That's it. Yeah. 

  [00:07:54] Hamish: Love it. Yep. not an uncommon story, like a, like a chippy going into being a business owner. Like, and then [00:08:00] actually started to run a business, like not very well.

  [00:08:03] Hamish: Yep. So you, I think you had some issues at some point. 

  [00:08:06] Luke: Yeah. Went through the ups and downs. Yep. So, started off, grew the team pretty quickly. Um, you know, everyone says get a players, but it was, it was pretty hard when you start out. I think I probably went through 30, 30 to 40 different, you know, carpenters and hiring agencies and apprentices and Yeah.

  [00:08:24] Luke: But yeah, went up and down. So I probably grew the team when I first started, um, to maybe eight people. Yeah. And you're 

  [00:08:31] Matt: building or just carpentry work at that point? 

  [00:08:33] Luke: Uh, builder. Yeah. Yeah. So doing full projects, um, I had people coming to see me, just who locally knew I'd started my own business, who wanted me to do, you know, pretty big houses, like 30, 40 square.

  [00:08:43] Luke: Wow. Um, projects. Some big jobs. So straight into the deep end. Yep. No business processes, no cashflow management. No. Didn't know how to quote. Couldn't search. There was no Instagram, there's no one to contact i'd. I'd asked other builders if they could [00:09:00] help me with some estimating templates and stuff, and no one would share anything.

  [00:09:03] Luke: Yeah. So that's pretty, pretty isolated. It's different world now. It's completely different now. Yeah. You can just chat to anyone now and a lot of people are happy to help, but back then it was, my boss wouldn't gimme anything. Um, so it's not like you're taught how to use Excel either? No, no. Didn't know how to use any of that stuff.

  [00:09:19] Luke: Yeah. And then, yeah, after probably the first three to four years in business, we just hit massive cashflow issues, um, which led to me having to like, just find stuff around the house, you know, to sell, selling my personal iPads and push bikes and Wow. Four-wheel drive, you know, just to pay payroll and then had to sell the house Wow.

  [00:09:38] Luke: Um, that we built. Um, so it was, it was like 75 grand in an overdraft. The house was like fully maxed out mortgage wise and all that just occurred from not having that, um, the systems around estimating properly and running cash flow. And it's probably, you know, just like, yeah. Trying to delegate stuff to untrained bookkeepers and, 

  [00:09:58] Hamish: and it's probably not an [00:10:00] uncommon, like 

  [00:10:02] Matt: three more common than, yeah.

  [00:10:04] Hamish: Yeah. I mean, you know, we're hearing stories now, like off the back of COVID, we've sort of got that lag of, I guess, builders kind of feeling like they've come out the other side and then realizing that fuck, they're actually using their last job to finance the next one. And now that things are slowing down, they're like, fuck, I've got no money and I've got no in front of me.

  [00:10:23] Hamish: So 

  [00:10:23] Luke: yeah, my mindset was back then, this job's gonna save me, like the, the next job's gonna, you know, pull me outta this hole. And it was just a, you know, I've got a different mindset now. It's the overall flow of Yeah. Everything that happens through the business. So you're always just trying to win the next job to try and pay for.

  [00:10:39] Luke: Then you undercut yourself. I would've been, you know, you probably, you're trading insolvent, you know, 'cause you're just trying to get the cash to come in. Yeah. You not just cover your overheads, but cover the actual costs, the raw costs from the last job, the sub, you're quite a bit 

  [00:10:52] Matt: lower just to win the job.

  [00:10:53] Matt: To keep yourself. Yeah. It just, it's just a shitty cycle to get into. The problem is it's, that is to, you can work 

  [00:10:58] Luke: out of it. Like, you know, you [00:11:00] chip away and Yep. That's a cycle right now for 

  [00:11:02] Matt: so many builders still. Yeah. Which is probably why you're now in Future Builder. 

  [00:11:05] Luke: Well I reached out at that point and luckily I started, I went to like a master builders conference and then there was someone there that introduced me to the concept of business coaching.

  [00:11:16] Luke: Yep. And that's where I sort of started off that route with business coaching and then audio books, which really unlocked just a new world of knowledge. Yeah. Okay. That I didn't, um, 'cause podcasting wasn't really yet. But yeah, 

  [00:11:27] Hamish: just some 

  [00:11:27] Luke: great 

  [00:11:28] Hamish: audio books. And, and, and I dunno if I'm diving too much in your personal art, but being dyslexic, do you struggle reading books?

  [00:11:35] Luke: Yeah, if you asked me to read out loud, I'd sort of get a bit of a sweat. Yeah. I actually, 

  [00:11:40] Hamish: I actually quite, 'cause I enjoy doing voice notes and I actually, like most of our conversations are actually voice notes back and forth on the phone. One mind, I just can't fucking type past that. I do love 

  [00:11:48] Matt: sometimes now when it, like, it actually transcribes it.

  [00:11:51] Matt: So sometimes you go, yeah, I've got it. If you don't really wanna listen to it as well. Some people you kind of get an idea of, yep, I know what the conversation's happening 

  [00:11:58] Hamish: and I wanna get to that. 'cause you've, 'cause you [00:12:00] have written a book, it's fucking so much to talk about. But was all of this at this stage under the banner of Davies Construction?

  [00:12:06] Hamish: Yep. Yep. Well, at what point, um, you obviously realized you've learned from your mistakes. You've gone and done a whole bunch of, you know, education with that, to audio books, talking to people, getting business coaching and stuff like that. I, I'm interested to understand at what point did you start seeing things turn around and then when did you realize that design construct was like the way forward?

  [00:12:28] Luke: Yeah, so when I started to reach out and get help, I still. Felt alone. I ended up, um, you probably don't know this either, but I ended up having a franchise, like a building franchise for a couple years. I dunno this, but I'm not surprised. Yep. In ta in Tasie as well. Um, just because the, the, the attraction of dev.

  [00:12:45] Luke: It's a systemized thing you can buy. Oh, so you bought into I bought into a franchise, yeah. Okay. So I run that for a couple years in Tasie. Yeah. Still had Davies Construction, but trying to use like the franchise model as well to 

  [00:12:55] Matt: bring it across, like use that as the template to bring everything to your other Yeah, [00:13:00] yeah.

  [00:13:00] Matt: And then actually quite smart. 

  [00:13:01] Luke: And then, um, it's not silly at all that that was just, that was a couple years. So, and it was, it was just hard. Like the market was hard there. I was doing all sorts of, again, no real social media. I'd print out like a thousand letter mail mailbox things, and you go around and drop in mailbox.

  [00:13:17] Luke: Um, yeah, letter box drops. Letter box drops, and. Talk talking to real estate agents and Yeah. You know, it was just hard to get networking. It was just hard to get a job. Yeah. It was just super hard to find, find work and get a job. 

  [00:13:28] Hamish: When was this? What year are we talking? 

  [00:13:30] Luke: Um, well I started in 2009, which was probably, you know, that was the GFC.

  [00:13:35] Luke: Yeah. Okay. That's when I started and then, um, so you know, sort of five years after that. 

  [00:13:40] Hamish: Yeah, yeah. Tricky time to be a builder. Yeah. 

  [00:13:43] Luke: It was 

  [00:13:43] Hamish: pretty, pretty tricky. 

  [00:13:44] Matt: Yeah. It's still pretty tricky right now though. It was, yeah. I was Has it really? I think aren't we always in a cycle? It's like it's, oh, it was tricky back then.

  [00:13:51] Matt: It's tricky now. Like, do we ever get outta tricky? 

  [00:13:53] Hamish: I dunno, Luke, you seem like you've got outta tricky. Yeah. Oh, you 

  [00:13:56] Luke: definitely, I you do get outta tricky cycle. Just different challenges. It's been [00:14:00] years, you know, big periods of, of my career that I haven't, you know, I've had lots of free time. Um, you know, the business is making good money.

  [00:14:08] Luke: The team's humming along. Yeah. So you can definitely go through phases. Yeah. Yeah. 

  [00:14:13] Hamish: Um, and, uh, you like Davey's Construction. Was at some point design construct 

  [00:14:21] Luke: At what point? Oh, design and construct. Um, so design and construct stuff started, I just started to generate a few people that were coming in without plans.

  [00:14:29] Luke: Yeah. Um, and then, yeah, just wanted to sort of, I was, I'd come in without plans and I'd say, well go to this designer or go to this architect and then come back and see me. Yeah. But I found I was like completely losing control of the process. Yeah. Okay. And they might come back or they might not. What do you mean lose control?

  [00:14:44] Luke: Well, they just might not, they might go to the architect and they'll go through the tender process and you lose out. Yeah. Then it's going to the tender process. Then you just lose, you know, they don't come back. There's no input. They don't ask any input from you. Yeah. And you lose control. So, um, I started to just [00:15:00] partner up with a couple.

  [00:15:01] Luke: So we would, they would exclusively work with us as a builder. Yeah. And they'd be the designer. And then we, um, started a little design company where we were trying to use plus spec as a tool to be able to design houses and also give the quantities. Yeah. And, and the outputs. The concept around that was like, if a builder brings in a set of a design and construct job, we can design it and, um, give it back a 3D model with a set of accurate, um, takeoffs.

  [00:15:29] Matt: What year was this? 

  [00:15:30] Luke: Um, this would've been probably eight or nine years ago. Wow. 

  [00:15:34] Hamish: Yeah. Right now I'm, and then 

  [00:15:35] Luke: I run that, tried to get that design company going for a couple years and it ended up failing. we didn't lose money, but it just, we couldn't get traction with the technology and that at the time, and we couldn't make it work with the, the people that I, I was finding do, 

  [00:15:46] Hamish: do you think it was, the technology wasn't quite up to it yet?

  [00:15:49] Hamish: Yeah, because now, you know, we're, we've obviously started on a journey with plus spec as well now, and I dunno, I can't help but see the positives on that. 

  [00:15:57] Luke: Oh, it's the, the exact, all the, all the, all the, [00:16:00] um, the good outcomes and the PO positives are still the same. Yeah. It's just at the time trying to find people that.

  [00:16:05] Luke: The, with the skills and the, yeah. Okay. And the, it's 

  [00:16:08] Matt: 3D millings back then. Like, well, why change? We've got 2D plans. 

  [00:16:12] Luke: Yeah, that's right. So that, that happened, that failed. Then I, I started doing design and construction through Davies Construction, so we got professional indemnity insurance, um, and it was just, I hired architects in house.

  [00:16:24] Luke: Yep. So someone, and that was super streamlined. Clients loved it. Yep. One stop shop. Yep. Um, and that's probably the sort of one of the best periods that we had. Yeah. Um, we, we've done a heap. We, I was like, we won a heap of awards through that period and had awesome projects and awesome clients and, um, it was a really, a really sort of good period.

  [00:16:44] Luke: And then we started getting more leads than we could handle around Tazzie. So we started doing designs for other builders. Yeah. Okay. Um, Launceston and Hobart Un under the, under Davies construction. Yeah. And then we thought, oh, it's a bit weird having Davies Construction. On, on [00:17:00] another builder set of plans.

  [00:17:01] Luke: Yep. So we ended up coming up with the concept of a line architecture. Yeah. And then we split the split the companies, again, companies always go through cycles of trying to amalgamate stuff and split off and Yeah. So it's, you know, it's just the, the path that happened. Yep. Um, and now we have, yeah. Davey's Construction is a separate entity.

  [00:17:18] Luke: A line architecture is a separate entity. Yep. And um, uh, that's sort of how it is, how it's today. Yeah. 

  [00:17:24] Hamish: And look, we've, we've, we've been chatting with the guys that align for, on a co couple of projects and I'm excited about, you know, getting them on board 'cause like just seeing the feasibility and, you know, your approach to very systemized approach, um, to getting, like going through that design, process with being very builder focused and cost focused.

  [00:17:45] Hamish: And 'cause you don't see that in our experience with going and sorry for designers and. Who are listening to this say, 'cause I 

  [00:17:52] Matt: would say it. 

  [00:17:53] Hamish: Yeah. Like, you know, having a builder's mindset and I guess having a builder's DNA through those drawings of how [00:18:00] we would think to put it together, makes it so much easier to then put it together.

  [00:18:04] Matt: I see this as being the biggest disruptor coming up, design and construct. I think a lot of architects are gonna lose their jobs. I think it's gonna, the industry will go down. I, I don't look, not judge. I think it's gonna be very hard to build. Uh, you'll see more people wanting to go through a streamlined service.

  [00:18:18] Hamish: I, I think, I reckon what's gonna happen is that there's gonna be more the, the, the collaborative process between builder and architect. Whether that's through a company under one umbrella. Yes. Or a architect under, under an alignment design team having an alignment, which is why I love the name by the way.

  [00:18:36] Hamish: Um, you know, working through drawings together and being truly collaborative. Yeah. Like, 

  [00:18:41] Matt: think about a client, like you're gonna go, it's a one stop shop. Like they, they just get everything at one place. But I think, but I 

  [00:18:47] Hamish: think what will happen is the architects will still exist. Builders will still exist separately, but they'll, people will come in and go, Hey, this is the architect we work with, or this is the builder that we work with from an architect's point of view, and this is our process, not this [00:19:00] is my process.

  [00:19:00] Hamish: That's the builder's process. It's like, this is the process we'll follow. Yep. Through this process. Yeah. Through this, um, design. 

  [00:19:07] Luke: Uh, yeah. Design was a massive, it's been a massive advantage. Um, it was an aha moment for me when we had a house, got judged, and won National Master Builders Awards. And the, the actual construction of it wasn't as good as I would, you know, like, 'cause it was, it was done through our company from the, with the general manager at the time.

  [00:19:25] Luke: He sort of built himself. Yep. But it was the power of the design. So it doesn't matter how good a builder you are. Yeah. Okay. You know, you can do the best, swing the best door and take the best window in and all that type of stuff. But if the design, uh, hasn't been done. You know, thoughtfully. Yeah. Which is, you know, the sort of concept of this book.

  [00:19:41] Luke: Yep. Um, you know, with the right feeling and thoughtfully, , you, those things have to work together. So we, we need people that can do creative designs. Oh, no, you definitely, and we also need really skilled, um, trans people, trades people to put it together. We've just gotta 

  [00:19:56] Matt: work together. We all want the same, to work together.

  [00:19:57] Matt: Like everyone wants the same outcome, so just work [00:20:00] together. Yeah. 

  [00:20:00] Luke: And it's, it's all about the customer. So if the customer could click their fingers from not having a house to having a house, they wouldn't decide to have to go to this person and that person, and this person and that person. So trying to make that as streamlined as possible.

  [00:20:12] Luke: They just want the outcome. 

  [00:20:13] Hamish: Yep. 

  [00:20:14] Luke: Um, 

  [00:20:15] Hamish: yeah, I mean, how many, Matt, how many clients come to you, uh, asking you what the next step is? Uh, all of them. All. All. Yeah. All of them. Like, people want to know, they want, they want a clear. Process and 

  [00:20:27] Matt: there's there misalignment on information. Like we're both pretty educated on the high performance passive house side of things.

  [00:20:33] Matt: And if you haven't got someone that doesn't understand that the mis the communication, they might be learning how to talk about it or they might not understand it and therefore it gets mis explained to the client and then they don't think it's important that gets taken out and stripped out and or they're ill-advised on costs.

  [00:20:47] Matt: but even we like how much time do you spend in front of a computer looking at costs? And even still, you get a plan, you're like, I dunno what that costs until you start running numbers. Yep. Yet some magical reason design teams can pick out a number and apparently that's the cost of [00:21:00] the build. 

  [00:21:00] Luke: Yeah.

  [00:21:01] Luke: And the plans were getting were pretty rubbish as well. So when you go to build with 'em 

  [00:21:05] Matt: Yep. They're unresolved. And you have you found the quality of plans has dropped over the last five years? 

  [00:21:09] Hamish: I'm gonna say no, only because. Of what I was talking about before with that collaborative process. You know, I know everyone talks about collaboration and it's a bit of a fucking buzzword at the moment, but 

  [00:21:22] Matt: it's green.

  [00:21:22] Matt: It's like the greenwashing sustainability word. 

  [00:21:24] Hamish: Uh, I actually think that our process is pretty robust and we're really involved during that design phase from a buildability and constructability point of view, and identifying issues in the plans. So our goal is to have them resolved by the time we sign contracts.

  [00:21:41] Hamish: So like, I don't, I, I don't know what those plans would be like if we didn't do that. So it's hard. I'm not gonna comment one way or another. And every 

  [00:21:48] Matt: job you look at, you pick something up new and you add it to the list. 

  [00:21:51] Hamish: Yeah, exactly. And, and that's the thing. And this is where true collaboration really works.

  [00:21:55] Hamish: Because I wanna know from the design team and consultants, is there something that we [00:22:00] are doing that we need to improve on? If you don't tell us, we dunno, we're not gonna know. It's the same with the drawings. Hey, we want this on the plans because my team are coming to us asking that question all the time.

  [00:22:11] Hamish: So can we just include that thing? 

  [00:22:13] Luke: Yeah, yeah. Every builder I talk to, I dunno, anyone that wouldn't be happy to, you know, or doesn't want to collaborate in that reconstruction phase just because they want a better outcome for the the project. 

  [00:22:24] Hamish: So I don't think it's design construct, but I think it's that actual true collaboration of where builder and architect are both inputting their knowledge into those drawings.

  [00:22:33] Hamish: And there's other people in 

  [00:22:34] Luke: that 

  [00:22:34] Hamish: collaboration. Oh yeah, a hundred percent. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. 

  [00:22:37] Matt: It's the first, like I think now that I, I think we're speaking about this before, like builders are now professional due to things like future build, like they're taught, they do more education than just working about themselves.

  [00:22:48] Matt: That they can now sit in the room with these people who've gone and done uni degrees, engineers, architects, and they can hold their own and be, and treat themselves. Not like the tradie smoke in a dart. Yeah, 

  [00:22:58] Hamish: I mean, it's a great, probably a great [00:23:00] segues to, you know, you and I both wearing these future builder t-shirts right now.

  [00:23:03] Hamish: So I I'd love to, I, I'll probably actually never ask you this, like, where did the idea for Future Builder come from? 

  [00:23:11] Luke: Uh, it's been hanging around for a fair while actually. Okay. Yeah. So it probably, it was probably only a couple years after I started, I, I found an old note that I'd wrote down where I wanted to create, 'cause I couldn't find anything back then.

  [00:23:24] Luke: Yeah. And I just, I had had an idea that's been floating around the back of the head. It's, um, I wanted to create like a platform that has all the, the resources and assets and stuff that you need to run a business to run a building business. Yeah. And then it's sort of always been floating around. And as we developed a line, um, we come up with the term future builder , as, um, like our, a group that we wanted to put together.

  [00:23:45] Luke: Yeah. And we had a concept of like a concierge service. Okay. Where we could, um, you know, find builders that specialize in what you specialize in, Matt or. Hamish and architects that specialize in the same thing and the client and sort of match 'em together. [00:24:00] Yeah. Like Tinder. Yeah. Pretty much Tinder for building a house.

  [00:24:03] Luke: Tinder for building a house. And um, and that sort of sat there and, um, then I had a, an idea to build a course based on the book Dream Home. Yep. And I reached out to the guy that was doing all of my visual stuff at the time, Matty Long from Tasie Visuals. Yep. And said, Matt, you know, do you wanna do a bit of a deal?

  [00:24:20] Luke: We'll build a course. And, um, I've got a couple ideas for some courses for some builders as well. Yep. And he said, I actually been speaking to another guy in Launceston who wants to, who was singing about doing some stuff for builders and his name's Cole Z. Right. There we go. And I said, oh, well, I've actually had a few chats with Kyle on Instagram.

  [00:24:36] Luke: He's messaged me about a few, details and bits and pieces. And we've had, had a couple of calls. So we all got together and um, it sort of grew from there. We thought, well let's, um, let's create this community where we can take everything outta our construction businesses. Yep. White label it. bring in some experts, make some courses, make a community.

  [00:24:54] Luke: Yep. And, um, see if we can really improve, both the, the, the life of the business owner, [00:25:00] their own health Yep. And the output that their business, um, creates. So healthier act, healthier products, healthier homes. Yep. And that's where it, uh, that's where it, it happened and we just got stuck into it.

  [00:25:10] Hamish: And I feel like, you know, having been in the platform for a while now, I think one of the bus biggest successes for me is one, the engaging content. And I think, you know, partnering with Maddie was genius. I don't think there would've been many people that kind of put that thing together about, 'cause we're visual people.

  [00:25:29] Hamish: We like pretty things. You know, we're in the age of, um, videos and stuff on our phone. And, and Matt really has an amazing way of kind of capturing that. And then, uh. Kyle's obviously a big personality as well. You know, he's great in front of a camera. He is really engaging too. And like, just putting the three of you together I think was fricking genius.

  [00:25:50] Hamish: And then the white label that's for me was the, like, that's just the vinegar stroke because builders like, great, I've watched that video, I've watched a thousand videos [00:26:00] online, you know, but I'm not getting anything out of it. You get to watch a course and then there's an asset and I can take that asset, put it in my business, put my logo there, and then it's, then, then even if it's version one, I've got something that I'm starting to do.

  [00:26:14] Hamish: And I think I've been in, in a couple of different, um, you know, builder training platforms before they're all PDFs and they've got someone else's logo on there and you can't do anything about it. So then there's a massive barrier of taking that, trying to then reproduce it. And then having one that kind of actually works in my business, what you guys do, it's called AI 

  [00:26:34] Matt: now that you could just upload it.

  [00:26:35] Matt: Well, you 

  [00:26:36] Hamish: could, but, but I'm joking. But this is just easy, right? There's a, there's a, I agree. There's a white labeled thing. I'll put it in my business. Even if you just think to yourself that this is version one. In 10 years time, it might look completely different, but this is the start, like putting one foot in front of the other, and I think that's what you guys are providing.

  [00:26:53] Luke: Yeah. If you've just got that tool just to get your, get you running. Yep. Um, so all the courses are to do based lessons, so we try and keep 'em [00:27:00] short. And you, you're actually doing something when you're watching the video, not just learning the, the topic and two, two to three minutes. Yeah. And then there's a, like an asset.

  [00:27:08] Luke: So if it's an email template or a sales proposal Yeah. Or a standard operating procedure or whatever the thing is that we're teaching. Um, yeah. Hopefully by the end of the, the course you've just, you, you've implemented that in the business and that's filled a hole because every sort of frustration, bottleneck, and hassle, if you just think about what's causing it, usually comes back to.

  [00:27:29] Luke: Um, one of the, you know, what we call an asset? Yep. If you're, if you're attracting the wrong people, it's your marketing message asset. If you are, um, you know, you're struggling to get the team members at your job ad and recruiting asset Yep. There's, there's always an asset, um, that can fill the hole. And if the team's trained to use that tool and that asset Yep.

  [00:27:46] Luke: Um, you know, it's like on the, on the construction site, you know, it's, you got the wrong tool for the wrong job, or you're missing a, a missing a tool. Yep. It makes it a lot harder to, to do the work 

  [00:27:56] Hamish: to and be 

  [00:27:57] Luke: successful. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And do a quality job. 

  [00:27:59] Matt: So [00:28:00] you run a building company, you run an architecture firm.

  [00:28:03] Matt: What's risky and what's harder?

  [00:28:05] Luke: in terms of risk, uh, cashflow risk, the architecture firm is less risky because you're only paying wages. So I, I, I, I definitely felt the difference. 

  [00:28:14] Matt: Like, it's time. If it takes a bit longer, you just, 

  [00:28:16] Luke: yeah. Well, you're not, you know, you're not, when you're, when you're a builder, you are.

  [00:28:20] Luke: Pretty much cash flowing. Everything. You have all the subs and materials. Yeah. And it's not just labor and your overheads, it's everything. So you've gotta really be on top of managing. Yep. So many moving parts. You're the bank and your bank. Bank. Yeah. If 

  [00:28:32] Hamish: you looked at your bank account in like a, in a, in a, in a visual form.

  [00:28:36] Hamish: It's like a fucking roller coaster. Yeah. It does 

  [00:28:38] Matt: this. And I can see how trade on builders like, oh my god, I can buy the boat. But they've forgot Now they've got a hundred thousand dollars GST bill, they've gotta pay. Yeah. Now they don't, that don't 

  [00:28:47] Luke: happen to me. It wasn't a boat. But, you know, you spend money on stuff's an architecture firm, but, uh, that's it.

  [00:28:52] Luke: That's where all my money went. And it is, it's like a, it's probably a few hundred grand exercise to set up. Yep. Really an architecture firm. 

  [00:28:58] Matt: Right. You know, just in [00:29:00] learning and, and you wouldn't have had the assets. It's not like you for anyone. So all the CAFOs, you can't bring from your existing employee and build your library up.

  [00:29:06] Matt: Yeah. Nothing. 

  [00:29:07] Luke: So we started from scratch. We had to decide on the software we wanted, wanted to use and, um, build all the templates. So from a cash point of view, definitely the, the, um, the construction company's more risky and I think. I think the construction company is probably the, the highest risk out of anything that's involved in steel.

  [00:29:23] Luke: So that's, that's again, a, a, a passion and a reason of why, to try and eliminate, you know, sort of minimize some of this risk with these assets 

  [00:29:31] Hamish: and look on, on that. Like, I've, you know, chat with a lot of the guys within guys and girls in Future Builder, and I was chatting with, one of the guys yesterday at, uh, at the AI Summit, and we'll just chat.

  [00:29:42] Hamish: He's 31. And I turned around and I go, mate, you have no idea how lucky you are. Yeah. Like, you have, I don't, I I probably can never explain to you how lucky you are to have this. 

  [00:29:54] Matt: Oh, you'd be, you're, if you're a builder, get your license. You've just got your license. You're [00:30:00] stupid if you don't sign up to something like Future.

  [00:30:01] Matt: I, 

  [00:30:01] Hamish: I honestly think I, I, I think about where these guys are at and I think about where I'm at now. I'm 43. If I had this at 31. How much money would you saved? I actually don't reckon I really clocked in to actually owning a business was worth anything until I was in my late thirties. 'cause I was just fucking up all the time and, and learning from, I say seven years 

  [00:30:21] Matt: and seven years until you see money in the account.

  [00:30:23] Hamish: But I reckon, you know, these, these young guys and girls that are coming through now, they've got these resources and they can learn from all the times that you fucked up. All the times that Kyle's fucked up chatting with all the other people within the, you know, because we've got this, um, future builder chat.

  [00:30:39] Hamish: Someone's got a question about something and then you've got four different people jumping in and going, oh, do this, do this, this is my experience with this. Like, fuck, I did not have that when I was in, and when builders fuck 

  [00:30:49] Matt: up, it's not a hundred dollars, $200, a thousand dollars. It's tens, tens, tens and tens of thousands of dollars.

  [00:30:53] Luke: Yeah, I, uh, I did a seminar probably a couple of months ago and on the flight home I opened a blank document up and it was like the [00:31:00] heading was, you know. Where did I, how much am I fucked up in business? Pretty much. And I just spent four hours like trying to Crying. Your, just crying, you know? I could explain, but yeah.

  [00:31:09] Luke: Being honest and just writing it down and it did add up to millions of dollars. Oh, would be, so it just had like the, all the things that I'd done. Yeah. And then I just put a, like a, a, a value next to it. Yeah. Um, just so I can, again, learn, learn from those mistakes and try and look back and try and connect those, sort of, those crumbs.

  [00:31:27] Luke: Because I think there's, there's a gift in all of that stuff. And if you can find the meaning in that pain, uh, it really helps you sort of get that inner wisdom and learn Yeah. Going forward. So it's a, it's a, uh, it was really worthwhile exercise for me. Well, I think 

  [00:31:40] Hamish: just writing it down is you actually owning the mistake.

  [00:31:43] Hamish: 'cause a mistake can exist and you could just ignore it. Yeah. But if you sat down and owned it and then put a dollar next to it, like that is you going, holy shit, hang on a minute. I'm never gonna do that again. It's scary. Yeah, it definitely is scary. Yeah. Fuck. I'm gonna do that. 

  [00:31:56] Matt: So, so we talk about what's like.

  [00:31:59] Matt: The [00:32:00] riskiest. And how about like, what's the hardest business to run from, say a building company, to architecture firm, to educating builders? Like what's the most challenging? 

  [00:32:08] Luke: Uh, still I'd still be the construction business, you know? It's just, again, so many moving parts. Yeah. 

  [00:32:14] Matt: Is it the hardest business to run at the moment in Australia?

  [00:32:18] Luke: I'd say so. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I can't 

  [00:32:20] Matt: like, and maybe we're biased 'cause we are builders, but I can't think of anyone that carries a risk like we have 

  [00:32:25] Hamish: to, and we just gluttons for punishment because I think about this and I'm thinking about what would I do, what would I do if I wasn't doing it? There's 

  [00:32:31] Matt: so much negative media around it.

  [00:32:32] Matt: Like, I, 

  [00:32:32] Hamish: I actually couldn't tell you what I'd do. And I think about, all right, well if I had, you know, a bunch of cash in the bank, I'd love to just work on my own property, but I'm still building. Yeah. And I'm still, I'm still own, I'm still doing something. Do you love, 

  [00:32:45] Matt: do you love what you do? Both of you love it.

  [00:32:47] Matt: Yeah. Yeah. I still love what I do. Yeah. And I said last night to someone actually, like, I love my job. Like, I love being a builder no matter how hard it is. And stressful and. I've gotta go to Turk and get a hair transplant 'cause I've lost my hair from it. Like, that's legit. Like what it does to you. But, [00:33:00] and, and even young builders who are like, oh, I wanna be, well, I'm actually seeing, because like we get through social media, like Chippies, I wanna be a builder, but I'm more and more getting a lot of like, I don't know if for, I really wanna take the risk now.

  [00:33:11] Matt: Like there's so much education out there, they're seeing that like, oh, it's not just that easy. Yeah. Like, I reckon we're gonna see maybe slight decline because it's so much easier just to go work for someone like yourselves and they get a very good wage, great working conditions. They're already doing the jobs they want then do.

  [00:33:25] Hamish: Mm-hmm. And I guess this is where, you know, the success of where future Builder is. Like it's, and what you define as 

  [00:33:33] Matt: a success. Like is it financial? 'cause that's not for everyone either. 

  [00:33:37] Hamish: Yeah, but I think it's, I mean, let's, why, why do you start a business. Well, some, for some, I, I would think it's to, to it's freedom.

  [00:33:46] Hamish: That's what I thought it was. From what though? Like freedom from what? Freedom From what? Well, I think it's free freedom. Like your own freedom and, and freedom that you can do the things. 'cause you are, you, you're in charge of your own destiny. 

  [00:33:56] Matt: Do you feel like you can do them now? The what you want? Like, do you [00:34:00] feel like you have the freedom?

  [00:34:00] Matt: You 

  [00:34:01] Hamish: know, I feel like I'm really fortunate. I've got three young kids and for eight weeks I worked part-time Yeah. To spend time with my kids. You know, today I am gonna knock off after this and I'm gonna go and hang out with the kids in the afternoon like I feel I do, but I'm always on, like, my brain's always on.

  [00:34:15] Hamish: So that's the, the weekends, Saturday, Sunday, if I'm working around the house, if you grab me at any time and ask me what I'm thinking about at that moment, it would be my business. 

  [00:34:24] Matt: Three o'clock in the morning, boom. Wake up. 

  [00:34:26] Hamish: Or, or, or how can I improve that thing? Or, oh, maybe I can implement this into the business.

  [00:34:32] Hamish: Like, I'm always thinking about it, but I enjoy it. That's what keeps me active and my brain active. Well, 

  [00:34:38] Matt: it's like I said, like I can't claim this saying it's the, the idea is free, but the grinds expensive. 

  [00:34:44] Luke: Yeah, 

  [00:34:44] Matt: that's probably true. Like mentally it drains you. But it, like, I wouldn't have, I wouldn't want it any other way.

  [00:34:50] Matt: Like, I couldn't think of anything worse rocking into a corporate job every day and seeing in office and, I mean, being told what to do. 

  [00:34:55] Hamish: I mean, it's, it's probably pretty clear that the three of us are probably, you know, cut from the same cloth [00:35:00] when it comes to like, some kind of a DHD DI diagnosis. Right.

  [00:35:03] Hamish: But like, we seek that dopamine hit and we are probably both, well, all of us are really excellent problem solvers. That's probably why we do what we do 

  [00:35:12] Matt: and decisive. It's not when you problem solve, like, it's like hearing some people, they sit there and like, oh, what am I gonna do? Like, we're just like, we'll just do it and own it and be like, oh, we'll fuck that up.

  [00:35:19] Matt: Won't do that next time. 

  [00:35:20] Luke: Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's a, that's a key trait I think. Making this, making a decision. Go at it. We gonna, if it works or not. 

  [00:35:28] Hamish: I have a question for you and, and it's probably not one that you've ever been. Asked and maybe not one that you've thought about. You are training these bus, these builders, right?

  [00:35:39] Hamish: Young. 30, 30, 35 years old. Some are older, aren't they? Some, some are older. 

  [00:35:44] Matt: Yep. Some are probably older than you. 

  [00:35:45] Hamish: But I'm just thinking the people that are on their own, they, they're, they're the beginning of their journey. Right. And I, and I guess we're the sum of all the times that we've all fucked up and the learnings that we've done, what kind of builders are we, are?

  [00:35:58] Hamish: Is future [00:36:00] builder, spitting out if they're not making the mistakes? Or is there still plenty of opportunity for them to still make mistakes in their business, but you're just helping them along the way and you're making the mistakes shorter and less said 

  [00:36:11] Matt: 10,000, it's a thousand dollars 

  [00:36:13] Hamish: mistake. 

  [00:36:14] Luke: Yeah.

  [00:36:14] Luke: I was thinking about this myself. Like, so I think failure is important. Yeah. If they, if you don't fail, you don't, you don't learn from that pain. Yeah. reflection plus pain equals, you know, your progress pretty much. Yep. Yep. So we're we, we are giving them the, a bit of a shortcut in terms of trying to plug some of the holes Yeah.

  [00:36:31] Luke: And giving them some advice on what they can do to, you know, sort of try and eliminate some of the pain. Yeah. But just the, just the, um, I, I suppose just the general aspect of running a business, you're always gonna, they're always, you know, we can't teach 'em everything. Everything. So they're always gonna have it's pain points and ups and downs and things that they need to learn themselves.

  [00:36:52] Luke: And it's 

  [00:36:52] Hamish: not a silver bullet, but it's a way to fast track to get to a point where, you know Yeah. You're a bit more comfortable. It is, it's one 

  [00:36:58] Luke: of the main principles that I adopt [00:37:00] as well. I try and find someone that's done what I've done and learned from them. Yep. Read books, and read audio and listen to podcasts.

  [00:37:06] Luke: Yeah. And try and just get those little nuggets of knowledge. Yep. To save me going through that. Um, yep. You know, who do you 

  [00:37:12] Matt: go to? Like, what's, do you have like a mentor or, 

  [00:37:15] Luke: uh, I've got a business coach at the moment who's working on, um, you know, my investing portfolio strategy and my health and just how I manage people and how I, um, reflect and contemplate and get, you know, again, that, that, that wisdom.

  [00:37:30] Luke: Yep. So we're going through, we work on lots of different stuff 

  [00:37:33] Matt: because you're not in the day-to-day of the, any of your companies. 

  [00:37:36] Luke: No, I'm, I, I do data day to day stuff in, future Builder. I do probably three meetings a week at Davies Construction. Yep. Um, meeting a month with a line, um, 

  [00:37:46] Matt: do you go to all your projects still and just pop in and have a look and, 

  [00:37:49] Luke: uh, no, not always.

  [00:37:51] Luke: We've got one project that's about to get handed over at the moment that I haven't been to. Wow. Do you wanna go 

  [00:37:56] Matt: check it out? Like, do you like I will, 

  [00:37:57] Luke: yeah. I get invited along to the handover, [00:38:00] 

  [00:38:00] Hamish: go and shake hands and get a photo. So the interesting is, so are your, so your clients now coming to your brand.

  [00:38:06] Hamish: They're not coming to you, which I think is probably a really good message for any business owner because I am very well aware that a lot of people are coming to my business 'cause of me, some big personality. Hear me, the podcast, sustainable Bills Alliance on Social Media. Um, only fans only.

  [00:38:29] Hamish: Oh, Matt. Um, didn't it, uh, yeah, like I, and I'm, I'm aware of that. Like, so I'm, I'm, I'm actively working on how to, how people can still come to my brand, like come to sanctum homes and not just rely on me like, 'cause I'm not, I'm not really involved in the pre-construction process People. Good people. Yeah. So it's about good people, isn't 

  [00:38:50] Luke: it?

  [00:38:50] Luke: Yeah. I just told my project managers this is run this like it's your own business. This is your project. Yeah. Um, and they, they run the project. I still like going to sites. probably [00:39:00] reason I haven't been to this one is 'cause I've been, you. Just on heaps of holidays. Yep.

  [00:39:04] Luke: And I just haven't to, when I've been back, I've been busy and I just haven't gotten to that area of the, the state to go and visit this project. But I, I do like to call into the projects. It's awesome. It's just a, it's a, when everything's running good as well, like you go in and the, the, um, everything's neat and the plastering is perfect and the paint's spot on and Yeah.

  [00:39:22] Luke: Not picking defects and, um, I hate gonna site when I'm just going there to solve a problem. I, I don't mind solving a problem, but I hate gonna to site when I'm just gotta go there. And there's just problems everywhere and their quality Yeah. Control problems that I know didn't have to happen. Yeah. That really Yeah.

  [00:39:39] Luke: Bugs me and drains me and Yeah. Actually, you know, it makes me want to sort of get outta building and, you know, so I think, um, there's, there's, there's definitely something to say for having great team and great process and great trades. Yeah. And it makes, it, makes it a lot more enjoyable for me. Yeah. Do 

  [00:39:56] Matt: your clients still get your number or, 

  [00:39:58] Luke: yeah, they've all got my number, but none of them [00:40:00] ever call me.

  [00:40:00] Luke: Yeah. Every now and then again, if something shit hits a fan, someone will send me a message. Yeah, yeah. Which still happens. Yeah. Okay. It's normal though, like, yeah, yeah. It's just communication breakdown on something can, it's like Luke can, you can just chop The architect said this and this guy said that, and can you out?

  [00:40:17] Luke: You're usually, you're the mediator. 

  [00:40:19] Matt: You're usually the mediator. 

  [00:40:20] Hamish: Yeah. Yeah. So you're saying this book here, dream Home, the art of building a sanctuary for modern healthy living has been kind of something that's been floating around in your mind for a while. Yeah. Yeah. What, what was the motivation? I'm really excited about reading this, by the way.

  [00:40:36] Hamish: What, um, what was the motivation just to do it? 

  [00:40:40] Luke: I dunno, I had the, in the back of my mind that I wouldn't mind doing a book someday for some reason. Dunno, don't ask me why. But, um, I went through a course called Key Person of Influence, um, with Glen Carlson just before COVID, yeah.

  [00:40:52] Luke: 2019. And, um, they take you through a framework of becoming like a key person in, in the industry. So that [00:41:00] set off my, um, traject trajectory of explaining what I do nice and clearly and getting published content like, um, books and blogs. Yep. You know, we talked about a bit yesterday with the 7 11 4.

  [00:41:11] Luke: Yep. Um, so we learned all that type of type of stuff. So having an ecosystem of content that people can read, watch, listen to or do. so then by the time they come to the business, they already sort of know you and, you know, which is awesome for like what you do with your podcast. It's pretty much how 

  [00:41:26] Matt: Donald Trump won an election.

  [00:41:28] Luke: Pretty much. Yeah. So it's, so you're, um, and a lot of people do, they come to us, it's like, oh, we've, we've been watching you for a couple years and when we, we knew that when we wanted to build, we wanted to come and build with you. So the book is just another part of that ecosystem Yeah. Of content and then.

  [00:41:45] Luke: I, it really helped me structure my thoughts. So I, I'm visual. The book was probably twice as long as this and I had to sort of, um, redu reduce it and reduce a lot of the tables and charts and stuff in it. Yep. To, uh, sort of make it, you know, sort of a [00:42:00] bit, bit, bit more easy to read. 

  [00:42:01] Hamish: Did you have a ghost writer or, 

  [00:42:03] Luke: yeah, I did.

  [00:42:04] Luke: So I had, um, I sort of structured the, there was a, there was a methodology going through that course on how you've structure the book, the chapters and the ideas. And this is 

  [00:42:13] Hamish: the key person of 

  [00:42:14] Luke: influence. 

  [00:42:14] Hamish: Yeah. Yeah. I think the 

  [00:42:15] Luke: program's changed a bit now. I think they have like a book writing, uh, book writing course.

  [00:42:19] Luke: Yeah. It's gonna be a race to see if you get the book out before 

  [00:42:22] Hamish: Me or Matt. Yeah. Yeah. We write one together. Yeah. 

  [00:42:24] Matt: Oh. And we can write one on each other. Oh yeah. That'd be cool. And you can't read it until it's been released. That's a book 

  [00:42:35] Luke: just to read. That's actually a book. The Key Person of Influence.

  [00:42:36] Luke: Yeah, it's a really, I've heard about, I've heard It's a really, um, it's a really good to turn on a light bulb in my head. It's just one of those fun, you know, like I've got five or six of those fundamental books that Yep. Really, really change the way they, what are the other ones? Um, well, systemology. Yep.

  [00:42:50] Luke: Dave Jennings, profit First. Yep. Um, it's a great book. Both, both. Those books are great books. Um, you know, um, Alan's book, marketing book. Oh yeah. But the thing is, read a book. Don't [00:43:00] just read it and put it down. Read it and implement it. It's like what we do, you know, you gotta take action. Um, another book, just what we're talking about, 

  [00:43:07] Hamish: books, 

  [00:43:07] Luke: traction.

  [00:43:08] Luke: Traction was Traction. Traction and Scaling Up. And those, um, type of books that give you a bit of an operating system for business. Which, which, um, which are really good. I've, I'm in the process of writing another one for that, but just suited for builders. So operating system for building businesses. Okay.

  [00:43:23] Luke: That's the next one on the, on the go. 

  [00:43:25] Hamish: All right. What am I gonna write? 

  [00:43:26] Luke: Um, a poem. A poem. Just get it out for, do you know what? I might, I might do like a forward in one of your books. Uh, but they're, they're awesome tho those books. Um, yeah, there's so many books. I think I've got 400 and something audio books.

  [00:43:38] Luke: Oh, audio library. Yeah. Wow. 

  [00:43:40] Matt: So I love Rework, which is written by the guys, by ba They're created Basecamp, but it's like each page is, it's only a paragraph or so, but it's like an idea and it's based off people through the world. So I think, I forget who it is. Like if there's too many people in the meeting, if you can't have two pizzas to feed everyone's too many people in the meeting.

  [00:43:55] Matt: Yeah. Like Brew basically. And it's, and there's so many, it's like they're all hidden gems. [00:44:00] And the other one, I think it's Chris Fos, um, is, uh, negotiation. Yeah. They, negotiation one, what's it called? How to Win? How? 

  [00:44:07] Hamish: How to Win Friends and Influence 

  [00:44:08] Matt: People. No, no, it's not. No, no. That's a different one. Um, oh, never Split the Difference.

  [00:44:12] Matt: Yes. Yep. Jeez. That is. Yeah. Banging book. 

  [00:44:15] Luke: And I love all Tony Robbins books as well. Yeah. Um, that's, I'm a, I'm a bit of a Tony fan. Yeah. Been going to a few of his courses lately as well, so his content's really good. 

  [00:44:24] Hamish: so with the, I mean, with this book you talk about dyslexic and I'm, and again, you don't have to talk about any of this if you don't want to, but how are you proofreading all of this?

  [00:44:34] Hamish: Like, if, 

  [00:44:34] Luke: if I, did I, yeah, you, so, so yeah. Going back to the way that the book gets structured Yep. You have like green, white, red, yellow cards. Yep. And you write down like a fact on one color card, you write down a story or case study or, you know, you've got these away and I just laid it all out on a table and had all these different colored ideas.

  [00:44:55] Luke: And then you sort of start to make sure that each chapter has a fact, a [00:45:00] story, um, you know, a case study, a quote. Yeah. And then you, you, you, you start to match up the, the concepts. So that's how, that's how I sort of come up with the book. And then I started to come up with these sort of methodologies, like, um, the six Elements of a Dream Home.

  [00:45:15] Luke: Yeah. Um, the a, b, C method for collaboration. Yeah. Oh yeah. I'm familiar with that. With the, with the line and all these type of things. So then, um, employed a ghost writer, um, they interviewed me and you know, based on the, the layout. Um, and then I'd get back, um, some text from them. Yeah. Actually I used, uh, ot ai.

  [00:45:36] Luke: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. So they, they, they just helped me, um, you know, come up with some questions and prompts, and then I'd use Otter ai and then that'd pretty much do the, the first draft. Wow. And then I'd, I'd read this book probably 10 times. It takes a long time, you know. Yeah. So, yeah. So this, this, how many, how many years in the making is this book?

  [00:45:54] Luke: About five years. Five years. Wow. Do you 

  [00:45:56] Matt: regret it? 

  [00:45:57] Luke: Um, no. No. It was a great, a [00:46:00] great reflection and contemplation. Sort of period for me, I'd go away, lucky that my wife's great, and she'd look after the kids. I'd pick it up every, you know, four, six months. I'd go away for a couple of days and just work on, work on chunks of the book and she'd allow me to do that.

  [00:46:18] Luke: So that was, that's pretty awesome. So that's my 

  [00:46:19] Matt: next question. Work life balance. You kids and a wife, how do you do everything? How do you have time for them? 

  [00:46:25] Luke: Um, a bit the same as Hamish. It's all, it's, I don't have any type of real work life balance. It's all the one I'm always on. Yeah, yeah. Thinking about stuff.

  [00:46:32] Luke: 'cause I love it. I'm so passionate about what I do. Um, does your 

  [00:46:35] Matt: wife get sick of it? 

  [00:46:37] Luke: Um, no. No. She's, uh, she's really supportive. Um, she, she's, she's, she's a part of this health journey. Yeah. She's part of the health stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, it's part of the, the personal development sort of journey. I've gone on, I started without her and we sort of started to grow apart on values and concepts.

  [00:46:54] Luke: So I. Getting her to come to fuel these personal development seminars and then sharing the same books has really aligned [00:47:00] us and made our relationship a lot stronger as well. Awesome. That's awesome. So now we're, there's nothing, we, we are an unshakable couple. I can't, there's nothing that can break our sort of relationship and we're, I can't wait to see what your kids do.

  [00:47:10] Luke: Um, yeah. And, and the kids, the kids come along on it as well. So most days I'm at home, you know, have bre with the kids. I might not always be home overnight, but I make time for them on weekends. Yeah. And we stood and we have big chunks of time away together. So this year we did the overland tracking Tassie, which was a seven day hike.

  [00:47:28] Luke: Um, how old are your kids? 10 and 12. So they did the Yeah. So they carried their own packs. Yeah. Of wet Trent walked through the snow and camp camped and Amazing, you know, builds resilience and Yep. All that type of stuff. Resourcefulness, all the stuff that I learned growing up on a, on a farm. I'm trying, 'cause we're not on a farm now, so.

  [00:47:46] Luke: Um, a lot of, a lot of the time people come from nothing and build up and then give their kids everything and then wonder why their kids don't succeed. But it's because they haven't grown up with the same sort of values and they haven't had to be resourceful. Seems like the world we kind of live in at [00:48:00] the moment.

  [00:48:00] Luke: Yeah, it does. Yeah. It's a, it's a recurring pattern that it doesn't matter what sort of stage you're in, you know, that happens 'cause you wanna give your kids the best. Yep. Um, and then we've traveled to Canada and the US and Hawaii and we've been to Fiji and we just have really good chunks and like, literally I'm in the moment and I know life can't get any better 'cause your kids are there, your wife's there, you, you're, you're zoned.

  [00:48:24] Luke: In the last holiday, I dropped my phone in the pool, so I didn't have a phone for six weeks. Amazing. Did you love that? I remember you saying that 

  [00:48:30] Hamish: because you, because you didn't have any, you're like, I, I didn't take any photos, I didn't take any, any photos or anything. So it was, it was just 

  [00:48:34] Luke: like, ah. Uh, 'cause I'm usually out snapping, snapping photos, and then I see something that's pinged me and I'm on it.

  [00:48:39] Luke: And then the kids are trying to talk to me and pulling my trousers and I'm like, oh, hold on. I'm, yeah. Doing this. That's the 

  [00:48:44] Matt: part that I struggle the most. And it's not, it's 

  [00:48:46] Hamish: not that day. I ran over my fucking phone with a lawnmower. Yeah. That was the most amazing weekend. And, and for so long I turned my phone off every Friday.

  [00:48:55] Hamish: And now for some reason I've stopped. So I've got a second work phone now. Yeah. So maybe I need to, maybe I need to do that. Just turn the phone. Oh, [00:49:00] you got a work phone, 

  [00:49:00] Matt: office phone. Just leave it there. Leave it office. And I'm slowly pushing everything to that. And I'm at a point where I might even just get rid of my number and start fresh.

  [00:49:07] Matt: Yeah. Yeah. I'm thinking about that. Just get rid, like just new number and only give it to certain people. Yeah. 

  [00:49:12] Luke: I did that. Wow. Um, yeah. New number. I got two. Just two. It's on the same phone. Yeah. But, uh, I always slip back into ha bad habits, like bringing the computer home and then doing work. Yeah. Well, we're not perfect bringing your 

  [00:49:24] Matt: phone.

  [00:49:24] Matt: You turn your phone, like, you just turn the sim cut off at a certain time. 

  [00:49:27] Luke: as soon as I come inside, every night I put my phone on the airplane. I don't take it into the bedroom. Yeah. I don't, I don't look at it. Um, 

  [00:49:34] Matt: yeah, I'd struggle with that. I feel like I'm addicted to my phone.

  [00:49:37] Hamish: Oh. I'm, I'm 100% addicted to my phone and I, I actually think it's got worse. Yeah. Over the last three months of having Juni. 'cause I was on the couch, you know, can't do it. Enjoying like a afternoon where she's just lying on me and I'm just doom scrolling. Yeah. Kind of feel like I've got into that habit now of always just reaching my phone at night.

  [00:49:58] Hamish: I just need, I need a break. So you, 

  [00:49:59] Matt: you, you turn your [00:50:00] work like, 'cause I've had a work phone. I could easily turn on airplane mode, but like, what if everything else you just don't care. Lovely. If a friend just wanna get onto you and just have a chat and give you a call. 

  [00:50:09] Luke: Yeah. I just, not that I don't care, I just, the phone's on airplane mode, so Yeah.

  [00:50:14] Luke: I'll answer the call and get back to 'em when the phone goes back on. Yeah. Okay. 

  [00:50:19] Hamish: I'm curious to know what's next. I mean, you don't come across a person that future architect that's gonna, um. You know, there's how architects would go 

  [00:50:26] Luke: in the, in that sort of community. I mean, I don't, I don't think 

  [00:50:29] Hamish: you're gonna stop.

  [00:50:30] Hamish: Like, I can't feel that, you know, there's, I think the, the next half of your life is gonna be full of all these other new amazing journeys that I'm, you know, excited to watch from the sidelines. But what's, what's next? What does the next five years look like? 

  [00:50:41] Luke: Uh, so I'm a big push in future builder, um, building out a, a completely new sort of operating system for how builders can track their, their numbers and find the constraint and the focus that they need to work on in the business.

  [00:50:54] Luke: Yep. And use AI to directly give them the right course, the right asset or the right expert they need to contact [00:51:00] to fix that constraint. Yep. So, um, lots of AI software development. AI is moving at a super rapid pace. I think we're, you would've heard of like the singularity where a GI, artificial general inte intelligence is smarter than human intelligence.

  [00:51:14] Luke: Yeah. Uh, I think that's happening now. Yeah. It's like any, practically any, but we can't see it. Yeah. And I think any moment or any month. Things are completely gonna change. Um, they're pretty much, and all the system stuff we've been learning and all these Yeah. Apps and stuff we use, I think it's completely gonna change sort of any, any time.

  [00:51:33] Luke: Um, so just keeping up with that and, um, yeah, we really want to make sure that we're servicing the current members that we have the best we can and putting lots of energy into that. That's why we are investing in this new sort of technology. Yeah. Um, no more businesses, no more bus. I've actually shut down.

  [00:51:50] Luke: I had an excavation business and I was in another tech business and, um, you know, these fewer things that I've sold out, I've, I've got out of them and shut, shut [00:52:00] some stuff down and yeah. Just trying to get my focus. Yeah. I thought it was different to everyone else than I could do. Less is more, you know, a thousand things at once, but I, I can't, you know, I wasn't doing, I was doing some stuff Okay.

  [00:52:10] Luke: But not to the level that I done. I mean, you've get it done. A 

  [00:52:13] Hamish: successful building company, successful architecture company, successful builder's education company. I think. That's pretty good. Yeah. Yeah. That's pretty good. Yeah, I think that's pretty good. So I just, 

  [00:52:23] Luke: just, just trying to narrow it down a bit.

  [00:52:24] Matt: So I just made the joke, future architect, and you just said, I don't think that'd survive in that community. Why? 

  [00:52:28] Luke: we've thought about taking the future brand to other trades or Yeah. Future trades. I've chatted about it with Mitch. Um, in terms of architects, um, I'm just not sure. I think the never say never, never say never.

  [00:52:41] Luke: But the, the builders just a in, in the high performance or the, the healthy home, um, industry. Like everyone just wants to get better and chat and yeah. Um, I just don't, I just made the comment 'cause I just don't dunno if architects would join a group and, you know, and do the same thing. Yeah. [00:53:00] And you know 

  [00:53:00] Hamish: what, I, I would love that happen, you to be proved wrong.

  [00:53:03] Hamish: Yeah, I would love that. You know, and, and in the nicest way possible. Yeah. I'd love to see that collaboration. Yeah, it'd be awesome. And, and I do talk, I 

  [00:53:11] Luke: dunno if there are any groups like that out there for, for architects to join. 

  [00:53:13] Hamish: Like, we talk, we talk often 'cause we've got a number of different group chats.

  [00:53:17] Hamish: You know, we've got one, you know, with, with a bunch of high performance people. Yeah. And, um, chatting with some architects about it. They're like, oh no, we don't, we don't share any of that stuff. Like, we don't have that group of, they don't see like eight or nine architects and designers going out for lunch.

  [00:53:33] Hamish: You know, we do that periodically with this group of people. 

  [00:53:36] Matt: I speak to you guys more than my wife some days. A 

  [00:53:38] Hamish: hundred percent. Our, our, so our group chat's called Hogwarts School of Better Builders. Yeah. And like it's always got, I've had to actually silence the message chat 'cause it kept pinging. Yeah.

  [00:53:48] Hamish: And I'll open up my phone. There's probably one on there now. Like, 

  [00:53:50] Matt: I mean, I honestly, I open up and there's very rarely not something, or the last one was at 1211 today. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, but, but 

  [00:53:59] Hamish: [00:54:00] it's great because we're, we're there, we're sharing, we're we're helping out, you know. I actually put into the chat 'cause Kyle mentioned there was a couple of lads in Tasie who had taken their lives the other day.

  [00:54:10] Hamish: And, um, I actually were like, holy shit went jump straight into that chat and go, Hey guys, I've just heard this. You, I'm so grateful that I've got this group of people that are here for me regardless whether I'm having a good day or a shit day. Yeah. You know, let's not stop, let's not stop this ever. 

  [00:54:27] Luke: Yeah.

  [00:54:27] Luke: I think I was, I was, I was listening to this podcast on a drive back from Hobart and you were telling the story about how all your mates come together to help you, um, fix something in one of your, your jobs. Yeah. Yeah, it was. Um, and just as you was turning the podcast, like I, I just, I um, I was driving just by myself in the ute and I was just listening to it and just in an instant I started, you know, I just had a tear running my eye and this emotion sort of hit me and I'm like, fuck, I actually remember that's just Jed, me.

  [00:54:54] Hamish: I think you were at the passive house conference that year where I actually gave the talk about that job. Yeah. [00:55:00] And there, there was two moments in that talk that I almost. Lost it. Drew, drew was at the end, and I, I actually stuttered. Yeah. And, um, it was when I was saying how grateful I was that, you know, Jack Mark had the guy from Beige Construction there as well.

  [00:55:17] Hamish: Right. And I had Brad all coming there to help me find leaks. Didn't have to be there on Saturday. Like, that's, that's what, that, that's what this community's all about. Like Yeah. It's special. It's real fucking special. And you know, I see that exact thing in the future Builder chat as well. Everyone, like, there's new guys in there from 22 year olds up to, you know, 43, 40 4-year-old that you old mean 

  [00:55:36] Matt: 22-year-old in there.

  [00:55:37] Matt: Like, I just feel like they're so lucky to have that. 

  [00:55:39] Hamish: Like, um, Noah Shields, right? Like he's mid twenties. Yeah. And I'm like, man. Yeah, he soaks it up. He's gonna, it's so, I'm so excited to see where guys like that are gonna be, and there's multiple guys in that group. Like, it's so easy, their trajectory, it's so easy for them, 

  [00:55:53] Matt: but like, they're so, like imagine having that many resources at that age when you, you I've gotta do my first estimate now.

  [00:55:59] Matt: What? [00:56:00] Yeah. 

  [00:56:01] Hamish: But I think like, and I just wanna go back to future Bureau one more time before we wrap this up. Like, you still gotta do the fucking work though. Like, it's not a silver bullet. You can't just go, oh well I'm gonna pay my money, I'm gonna do the course, and it's done. Like, you need to put the work in, you need to learn.

  [00:56:14] Hamish: This 

  [00:56:14] Matt: is actually gonna flow pretty well into, we've got a final segment, the MEGT, uh, it's our mindful moment. So we've got MEGT sponsoring this segment, um, to Australia's leading apprenticeship network 

  [00:56:28] Hamish: now, I believe, hang on before you go, you've got MEGT coming on. 

  [00:56:31] Luke: Yeah. They're gonna come on and um, do a mastermind.

  [00:56:34] Luke: Yeah. Lovely. At, uh, apprenticeship schemes and everything and Awesome. 

  [00:56:37] Matt: So what. We talk about study and I think when, and I've got this point made to me by Dave who works for me the other day. When you go to university, you go to school, like you go do your lectures and you, you learn and then you gotta go home and do your extra work and read and stuff.

  [00:56:51] Matt: Why is an apprenticeship any different? Like you should go to work, do your work, and you're learning. But when you go home, there's extra work that needs to be done. Like there's so many resources now [00:57:00] where you can jump on YouTube, podcasts, books, to just grab that extra bit of information to get better at your job because at the end of the day, you're setting yourself up for success.

  [00:57:07] Matt: Yeah, and that was a really good point 'cause I was like, ah, so many people with their apprenticeships just go to work and go home. Yeah. But there's so much more that you can do to be better. 'cause you're only setting yourself up for success. 

  [00:57:17] Hamish: Yep. So if you're an apprentice, my advice would be, and I dunno if you are the same here, Luke.

  [00:57:21] Hamish: Like it doesn't stop seven to four or whenever your work hours are. Like, if you want to get better, if you want to stand out, if you wanna exceed. If you wanna excel, yeah. You need to do some work yourself. 

  [00:57:33] Matt: You and your student are spending what, two to three hours a night extra doing some work. Like, and we're not saying do that, but maybe it might be half hour, 35 minutes.

  [00:57:41] Hamish: And let, let me ask two of you, like as a business owner, do you see the ones that put in the extra work? Oh yeah. Like it, they have a, like a aura around them that they are outshining The other people, 

  [00:57:52] Matt: they get end up, they're the ones that end up getting paid more when their apprenticeship finished. 

  [00:57:55] Luke: Yeah.

  [00:57:55] Luke: Yeah. They're the ones that are proactive. They go out and they, they're buying tools for themselves Yeah. And trying to better [00:58:00] their kit. And they're taking the plans home and reading, or they're preempting, they're gonna be installing a certain type of cladding and they'll, they'll have a look at the install guides.

  [00:58:08] Luke: Yeah. Yep. Um, you know, they'll start to get into, they'll listen to podcasts like this and, you know, try and, uh, absorb knowledge. So they're definitely, uh, I've had some awesome apprentices come through my business that have been amazing. They've won Apprentice of the Year and they've, you know, we've had all sorts of, great people come through that have gone out and started their own businesses now. Yep. Um, it's, it's a, it's an awesome path. Yep. Yeah. Apprenticeships. 

  [00:58:33] Hamish: Luke, I'm excited to watch the next however many years of your life unfold. It's been a, been a pleasure knowing for your last few years and I'm, yeah, thanks for coming on. 

  [00:58:41] Matt: So, no, thank you so much for coming on and thank 

  [00:58:42] Luke: you guys for Yeah.

  [00:58:43] Luke: Making the podcast and getting no dramas, getting some, uh, some knowledge out there. Thanks. Thanks buddy mate. Cheers. 

  [00:58:48] Luke: Cheers.