“Can AI do this?”
That’s the question Adam Antony wants every builder to ask before they open another spreadsheet, retype another invoice or chase another quote. It’s the heart of this episode, and it’s the “AI lord” chapter we teased at the end of last week’s conversation with the Veo Building Co founder. Adam doesn’t see himself as a wizard. He calls himself an early adopter, and that’s exactly why this one is useful: he’s a builder using it every day to run a real building company.
We start with the big one. Is AI coming for our jobs? Adam’s answer is that it’s going to enhance them, remove the repetitive work and open up jobs we can’t even name yet, and that on-site trades are about as safe as it gets. As he puts it, he’d love to see a robot cut a bit of timber 100 mil wrong three times in a row. Where AI is really helpful is if you give it proper context. Put the same prompt into the same tool and everyone gets the same generic answer. Feed it your files, your context and your way of working, and you get something completely different. Same tool, different inputs.
We talk about how AI could take some of the red tape out of council approvals, why a lot of “vibe coded” apps are solving problems nobody has, and why privacy fears are almost null and void when we all carry a smartphone anyway. They’re always listening. All the time. Hamish isn’t a fan, but Adam and Matt don’t seem to be overly bothered by it. It’s just the way it is.
Adam explains guardrails and API keys, and gives us an apartment building analogy for MCP that finally made it click. We also get honest about cost. Hamish’s mate says the tokens his business uses would cost around $50,000 a month at retail, he’s paying about $4,000, and that raises a fair question about what happens if prices jump. If we all get so used to using these tools and then they decide to raise the prices further, how much are we willing to spend for efficiency?
The real value is in pre-construction. Adam uses AI to review estimates for missing line items and $0 allowances, chase scopes and quotes, and run sales follow-ups. He’s also taken himself out of labour estimating, because data doesn’t tell you “that’ll only take three days.” Matt shares how automating tasks has taken him from roughly 50 hours a week to 36 to 38, with Fridays at home. Adam’s advice for getting started is simple. Treat AI like a new employee, write down the steps like you would for an apprentice, and use the skill creator to turn your process into a skill. He says agents are over-hyped. An agent is just a skill, a set of steps, running on a schedule.
We finish with WunderOps, Adam’s consulting business that helps builders make WunderBuild their single source of truth. Adam’s view is that it starts with a mindset shift, that costings are the heartbeat of the whole system, and that estimates should be order-ready so your project managers aren’t reworking quantities on site. We also compare feasibility, budget and contract estimates, and why explaining those stages properly to clients is where most builders fall down.
LINKS:
Connect with Adam: https://www.veobuilding.com.au/
Pro Clima - https://mindful-builder.captivate.fm/proclima
Wunderbuild - https://www.wunderbuild.com/
Biz Tech Guru: https://www.biztechguru.com.au/
Connect with us on Instagram:@themindfulbuilderpod
Website: www.yoursanctum.com.au/
Connect with Matt:
Instagram: @carlandconstructions
Website: www.carlandconstructions.com/
-
[00:00:00] Hamish: Do you know what my favourite thing on YouTube is right now? Do you guys know who Beau Mills is?
[00:00:04] Matt: No.
[00:00:04] Adam: No.
[00:00:05] Hamish: Google it. Like, look at, look him up on YouTube. It's this guy, he's, like- Yeah ... this 44-year-old ranga. Like, big beard. Oh,
[00:00:12] Matt: the, oh, the p*rn star?
[00:00:13] Hamish: No, no, no, no, no, no. The front- And he, um, he sets all these, like, really weird tasks for, for himself, and it's usually, like, he's gonna run across- Yeah
[00:00:21] like, one state to another, or kayak down a river that's not unka- And there's always this really amazing storytelling thing behind it. Yeah. And sets his really arbitrary, like, rules, and I'm, like, hooked on it.
[00:00:31] Matt: Yeah.
[00:00:32] Hamish: Do yourself
[00:00:32] Matt: a favour.
[00:00:32] Hamish: We
[00:00:32] Matt: watch very different content. We-
[00:00:34] Hamish: we- we probably do, but-
[00:00:35] Matt: I'm watching, actually, for the first time, Peaky Blinders.
[00:00:38] Hamish: Oh my God. What do you mean first time? Oh. Oh
[00:00:39] Matt: wow. I, I, I just never got around to watching it. Um-
[00:00:42] Hamish: Pe- Peaky Blinders makes you wanna start drinking again and snort cocaine.
[00:00:45] Adam: Uh, 100%,
[00:00:45] Hamish: it does. Am I allowed to say that?
[00:00:48] Matt: But you just did a line before the podcast. While you're pregnant.
[00:00:49] Hamish: While you're pregnant, yeah, yeah.
[00:00:51] It's a
[00:00:51] Matt: joke.
[00:00:52] Hamish: Look, I do not endorse anything like that, but Peaky Blinders is one of those shows that, you know, you're like, "I wanna be a, I wanna be a gangster." 100%. So
[00:00:59] Matt: I love [00:01:00] Succession. That's my favorite show of all time. Yep. Yep.
[00:01:02] Hamish: Uh, anyway, this has nothing to do with AI.
[00:01:04] Matt: This is,
[00:01:04] Hamish: hey, we, we're, we're, we, um- Nothing to do with AI.
[00:01:06] We've,
[00:01:06] Adam: we've
[00:01:06] Matt: got...
[00:01:08] Hamish: Adam again.
[00:01:08] Matt: Yeah, Adam again.
[00:01:09] Hamish: Part, take two.
[00:01:09] Matt: This is sort of the follow-on from the episode we just cut off, so
[00:01:12] Hamish: this is part two. We left you hanging
[00:01:13] Matt: last episode. Yeah. So we, we, we're gonna get into AI now. Wanted to bring this into a sep- separate episode. Yep. Uh, again, um, uh, thanks to Pro Clima, uh, Australia for being our main sponsors.
[00:01:23] AI's not taking
[00:01:24] Hamish: Pro Clima,
[00:01:24] Matt: though. Yeah, yeah, yeah, AI's not making membranes, but um- No,
[00:01:27] Hamish: not making them yet ...
[00:01:27] Matt: so-
[00:01:28] Hamish: AI's not making
[00:01:29] Matt: membranes. Yeah, so massive shout-out to Pro Clima for supporting us all year. Um, we love their products. So, uh, AI. So- Is it gonna take all our jobs?
[00:01:41] Hamish: No, wait. Wait, wait, wait. Yes. I'm gonna follow on from the question that I was, I went to ask last time, is how does a country boy from Goulburn who played footy, was a knockabout lad, and was a sheep farmer-
[00:01:53] I think, uh, how do you become, like, an AI wizard?
[00:01:59] Adam: I don't know if I [00:02:00] am an AI wizard. I'm an AI adopter
[00:02:02] Hamish: Well- Adopter. Okay.
[00:02:03] Adam: Adopter, yep.
[00:02:04] Hamish: Yeah.
[00:02:05] Adam: I probably, I probably seem like a You're a wizard, Adam Yeah, Harry. Um, I probably seem like it to some builders. Yeah, for me. Um, just 'cause the nature of the industry, like it's a, um, you know, most builders are carpenters and they're all builders.
[00:02:18] We're really practical- They're practical, yeah ... hands-on
[00:02:19] Hamish: people, yeah
[00:02:20] Adam: But I've always had a fascination in technology, like I've always, I've always been pretty good at computers. Um-
[00:02:26] Hamish: Did you play computer games and stuff as a kid?
[00:02:28] Adam: Yeah, I played computer games,
[00:02:29] Hamish: yeah. Yeah. You
[00:02:30] Matt: play Pong?
[00:02:31] Adam: Um, I'm not that old. So
[00:02:33] Matt: there, so there's a...
[00:02:34] Actually, on computers, so I... One of my favorite podcasts right now is called Acquired. Yeah. And they do a three-part series on, so it's, it's all about Nintendo and how they, Nintendo create, started, and then it went into, like, how all the other consoles come, and the whole of computer programs and games.
[00:02:51] Fucking fascinating. Insane. Is Acquired- They just- ... the,
[00:02:55] Hamish: like, three-hour long episodes?
[00:02:56] Matt: Some- this was- Yeah, yeah, yeah ... three four-hour podcasts on [00:03:00] Nintendo. Wonderful. And it's insane, I could not put it down. The, the Coca-Cola one is fascinating, IKEA.
[00:03:04] Hamish: Have, have you, yeah, have you listened to the Porsche one?
[00:03:06] Matt: No, I haven't got to that.
[00:03:07] Hamish: Or the Volkswagen one?
[00:03:08] Matt: I don't know. What is it? It's awesome. As Joel and I don't really like cars.
[00:03:10] Hamish: Oh, no, no, no, it's super interesting though, 'cause the i- No ... if you like the IKEA one- But it's- Anyway, Acquired Podcast. Yes, yeah,
[00:03:16] Matt: so It's really good. Um, yeah
[00:03:17] Hamish: They're like four hours.
[00:03:18] Matt: So you just, you join- You're
[00:03:19] Hamish: on, you're on one and a half times, for sure,
[00:03:21] Matt: when you listen So you think you're just normal, you're just a normal guy adopting to the way the world's changing?
[00:03:25] Adam: I'm an early adopter.
[00:03:26] Matt: Yeah.
[00:03:26] Hamish: Yeah.
[00:03:27] Adam: Yeah.
[00:03:27] Matt: Not
[00:03:27] Adam: a wizard.
[00:03:28] Matt: Do you think, going back to my question, do you think it's taking our jobs?
[00:03:31] Adam: Yes.
[00:03:32] Matt: All of them?
[00:03:33] Adam: Yes.
[00:03:34] Matt: Do you reckon you'll have a job in 15 years?
[00:03:37] Adam: Yes.
[00:03:40] Matt: See, I just, I kind of disagree a little bit. No. I think it's gonna help us be better at our jobs, and it's going to, uh, remove the, the lazy tasks or the crappy tasks no one kind of wants to do anyway.
[00:03:50] Adam: Yeah.
[00:03:50] Matt: That was, um- And it's gonna allow us to do what we want to do ...
[00:03:52] Adam: That was a bit of tongue in cheek there. No, it's not taking all of our jobs. Um, y- you're right, it's gonna enhance our jobs, and it's gonna make our jobs easier, and it's gonna [00:04:00] open up new jobs.
[00:04:01] Matt: Yeah.
[00:04:01] Adam: Like, there's new, new industries, new opportunities that come with it.
[00:04:05] But, but- And that will be in building as well ...
[00:04:06] Matt: textile industry, or like, think back in the day with blacksmiths. Oh, no, we're gonna... Fabrication and stuff is gonna go, and what are those punters gonna do? Or like- We are...
[00:04:14] Hamish: It just- I know we're gonna talk about this- Yeah ... a bit later as well, but like, case in point, you've also got a business called WonderOps-
[00:04:20] Adam: Correct
[00:04:20] Hamish: which would not exist without AI.
[00:04:22] Adam: Correct.
[00:04:23] Hamish: So, and I was thinking, while I was listening to a, um, Diver CEO podcast on the way in here this morning-
[00:04:29] Matt: Oh, is this the one about socialism?
[00:04:30] Hamish: No, no, no. No, it's about- That's
[00:04:31] Matt: really interesting ...
[00:04:32] Hamish: it's, um, you know, i- in, uh, what, I think he used the example of in 1923, a factory worker, if you told them there was gonna be a job for a yoga instructor or a dog walker-
[00:04:42] they'd be like, they'd be like, they couldn't even get their head around that. But now, like, these opportunities exist. I guess the point- Exactly ... I'm making is, like, new technology, new ways of doing things creates more opportunities. Yeah.
[00:04:54] Matt: I've got no doubt we're in an AI bubble, and it will burst to some extent.
[00:04:56] Yeah. But I don't think it's like those things that would burst, and it suddenly [00:05:00] disappears, and we don't have it.
[00:05:00] Hamish: Yeah.
[00:05:01] Adam: Yeah.
[00:05:01] Hamish: What, okay, so I mean, I reckon I'm, I'm talking from the, from the seat of... And I think if I'm sitting in between two people who are pretty tech-savvy- Mm-hmm ... like, I think I understand a little bit, but I don't understand enough to kind of do what you guys are doing.
[00:05:15] Like, how does, how do you help make AI accessible?
[00:05:21] Adam: Um, I just try to simplify it back down to what you actually need and block out the noise, I think. Yeah. Um, it is accessible, and once you understand it, um, like when you have that penny drop moment about how it works, um, how to communicate with it, how to get the results that you want, once that happens, it just unlocks so much, and it all- Could you give
[00:05:42] Hamish: me an example of, like, maybe a penny drop moment for you?
[00:05:45] Adam: Um, penny drop moment for me was- Understanding how to store me files, how to organise them.
[00:05:55] Hamish: Yep.
[00:05:55] Adam: So AI can access them. Um, prompt [00:06:00] engineering.
[00:06:00] Hamish: Can you, can you give us an example of how that looks? And, and maybe, maybe give us an example of maybe some, some document storage before-
[00:06:07] Adam: Yep ...
[00:06:07] Hamish: and some document storage now.
[00:06:09] Adam: Yep. Um, it's not so much document storage, but, like, more so organising your files, um, so that AI can access them- Yep ... and then scour them quickly.
[00:06:22] Matt: Yep. Can we, can we go back one step first? What can't it do with construction first, or yet can't do, or is it struggles to do? 'Cause I think we're gonna need to understand firstly what its limitations are before people start jumping- Yep
[00:06:34] the gun and doing everything and solve everything. 'Cause it currently
[00:06:36] Adam: can't. There's a lot it can't do.
[00:06:37] Matt: Yeah.
[00:06:38] Adam: Yeah, there's a lot it can't do. It's very powerful. Like, it's, you know, it's the leading person in any field, expert in the world. Like, it is super smart. But what it can't do is it can't act like you and it can't talk like you unless it understands you, okay?
[00:06:54] So, um- Giving it that context and helping it [00:07:00] understand all of that is where the real unlock is because it's generic. Does that make sense?
[00:07:04] Matt: Yeah, like when, when me and you first opened-
[00:07:07] Adam: Yep ...
[00:07:07] Matt: if we both, all three of us jumped on Gemini right now-
[00:07:10] Adam: Mm-hmm ...
[00:07:10] Matt: it's the same program to start with.
[00:07:12] Adam: We all ask the same question.
[00:07:14] Matt: Yeah.
[00:07:15] Adam: So if we all jumped into Gemini right now-
[00:07:17] Matt: Yeah ...
[00:07:18] Adam: and all put in the same prompt, we'd probably get back the same answer. If we all jumped into Gemini right now, put in the same prompt, and then mounted it to our context file or call, we'd all get different answers.
[00:07:30] Matt: Yeah.
[00:07:31] Adam: That's the difference. Yeah.
[00:07:32] Matt: Yeah, so, uh, and we spoke about this before and we've...
[00:07:34] It's like anything we've done in the systems bef- chats before, it's user input equals output.
[00:07:39] Adam: Yeah.
[00:07:39] Matt: Yeah. The more you feed into it, the more it's going to give you back. But that's like anything you, in any relationship, the more you give to a relationship, the more it'll give back to you. Yeah. Yeah. I th- I think the, the, where I asked the question is what it can't do, before we jump to the document storage same thing, the, it's like it can't really read plans like crazy yet.
[00:07:57] No. Like, like- It
[00:07:58] Adam: will ...
[00:07:58] Matt: yeah, ev- eventually it [00:08:00] will. Yeah. It's not gonna sit there and at the moment go, "I want to design a house" and spit me out some CAD drawings and-
[00:08:06] Adam: Oh, it can do that, yeah ...
[00:08:07] Matt: yeah, but not, not-
[00:08:08] Adam: Not well. Well, not saying well- Yeah ... but it can, like- It can- I've seen, as we sit here now, Astra, um, 6 come out for ChatGPT, and I've seen some architects using that in a 3D program called Blender and Revit together.
[00:08:21] Matt: To get Rev- renders?
[00:08:23] Adam: No, to get-
[00:08:24] Matt: Drawings ...
[00:08:25] Adam: full-on construction. Ah, not construction. Architectural drawings. Wow. So there's, like, been examples of, like, people taking photos of, like, a library or a, you know, a state building, and then pumping it into Astra and into Blender and Revit, and it's producing- That's like the Matterport
[00:08:40] Matt: cameras where you can go through, scan it, can upload a plan.
[00:08:42] Adam: Wasn't even that. I think it was just a normal- Oh, okay ... photo. I'll show you afterwards. But yeah, pretty cool. Um, not saying it's super accurate, but, like, from what I seen on that, it was, like, pretty, pretty impressive.
[00:08:53] Matt: So do you think then eventually within, say, the next 10 years, I could say, well, I'm gonna...
[00:08:58] You, you, you said before you're gonna look [00:09:00] at building and designing your own house.
[00:09:02] Adam: Yep.
[00:09:02] Matt: Do you think you'd be able to design your whole set of architectural plans through AI?
[00:09:06] Adam: Um, yeah, I do. But I think I'd still like the flair of, like, an architect.
[00:09:10] Matt: So yeah, so it's, it-
[00:09:11] Adam: So you could- But you could teach it that
[00:09:12] Matt: though
[00:09:12] Adam: s- you could potentially.
[00:09:14] Matt: Yep.
[00:09:14] Adam: But you're gonna have to tap in, it's like getting the big cord and plugging into someone's brain. You have to find that right brain person. I reckon they have so
[00:09:20] Matt: many photos online of all these- Yeah. Like, that's the thing.
[00:09:23] Hamish: I reckon what you've just said is really important because AI is incredibly powerful But without the right pers- like, without the right person driving it- Yeah
[00:09:32] your outputs could be wildly different. Yeah, that's right. So you could get an amazing architect-
[00:09:36] Adam: Mm-hmm ...
[00:09:37] Hamish: utilizing AI.
[00:09:38] Adam: Yeah
[00:09:38] Hamish: And get a really amazing result.
[00:09:40] Adam: Yeah, that's-
[00:09:41] Hamish: You could do the same thing and, and throw it in there and get a fucking pretty subpar kind of result.
[00:09:46] Adam: Correct.
[00:09:46] Hamish: Same tool, different inputs.
[00:09:47] Adam: Yep. Exactly.
[00:09:48] Matt: I reckon where it's amazing, I think it can remove a lot of the red tape in our industry.
[00:09:51] Adam: Yeah. That's- I
[00:09:52] Hamish: think... Could you imagine in councils? Oh,
[00:09:54] Matt: i- yeah, imagine, just i- imagine, like, if you're an architect.
[00:09:56] Adam: Well, that's what's so frustrating about the councils. Yeah. Like, every [00:10:00] other, every other industry is getting more efficient, but they seem to be getting more inefficient.
[00:10:05] So there was- And we're spending more money on, um, public service and stuff like that- There was, there was data that came out- ... when it should be getting cheaper ...
[00:10:10] Matt: during the week, and it's... I'm gonna over that, like, this won't be 100% accurate, so don't fully quote me on it. But something like we, back in the day, per year, every planner would, like, approve, like, 200 buildings, for example.
[00:10:25] Now, one planner per year will approve three. Like, they'll only get s- like, the, the, the... But there's, like, 10 times more planners.
[00:10:32] Adam: Hmm.
[00:10:32] Matt: So there's way more planners, way, way less output because they're all just a barrier to each other. Like, it, it was- That's interesting ... like, if you want, it was on the ABC.
[00:10:40] Hamish: I mean, this is not a sh- planner shit-canning thing, but I think- No
[00:10:42] we all, I think we all know that, like, if you just put AI into council decisions, I mean, I get the final check and measure should be human.
[00:10:51] Matt: But, like, imagine-
[00:10:52] Adam: Yeah, but it's all just, um, I... Yeah, I don't know.
[00:10:55] Matt: You could upload a plan, for example. You could
[00:10:57] Adam: get through 90% of it.
[00:10:58] Hamish: Like- But that's what I'm saying.
[00:10:58] But, but, but that's what I'm saying.
[00:10:59] Adam: The final- It's all just [00:11:00] guidelines and, you know.
[00:11:01] Matt: You can remove the objective na- The final half of it ... you can remove the objective nature of it. Yeah. So you... I- m- but also if you're an architect, and you just go, "Hmm, do you reckon this will pass?" We can upload it. Within a few minutes we have an answer.
[00:11:10] Be like, "Oh, it won't like this, this, and this." "All right, okay, cool. I'll fix that." And then we set out to push it through pretty quickly.
[00:11:15] Adam: Mm. There is some, um, I haven't tried them out, but they've been popping up on me Instagram. There is, I think one's called Planning AI, and it's pretty much programs like that where you're, um...
[00:11:25] Yeah, they're stress testing them against approvals and regulations. Yeah. So basically you'll just pump your plans through there, and it will find all the holes
[00:11:33] Matt: to all the red tape. But also then imagine that when you're trying to go to council for these poor planners and they're trying to argue these cases.
[00:11:38] Like, "No, no, no, but this clause and this one here says this, this, and this." Yeah. Like, and but I think it's also good because it removes... It, it makes it more efficient, so we can get more jobs on site a lot quicker. Yeah. And that's incentivize us as builders, but also decrease the cost to clients to get there as well.
[00:11:52] Adam: Yeah.
[00:11:52] Matt: Um- I, I don't know how... I think probably the, the safest, one of the safest jobs is an [00:12:00] on-site trade.
[00:12:00] Adam: Yeah.
[00:12:01] Matt: Like, unless robotics really takes over, I don't see that being an on-site thing for, like, carpentry or something. But ultimately- And it's
[00:12:06] Hamish: never gonna replace renovations and restorations.
[00:12:08] Matt: Yeah. So, yeah.
[00:12:09] So I think that, like-
[00:12:10] Adam: I want to see a robot cut a bit of timber 100 mil wrong, like, three times in a row.
[00:12:15] Matt: But, but I think that- Can't
[00:12:16] Adam: replicate that. No.
[00:12:17] Matt: Yeah, but I think that's where it's a big thing is gonna come through, is we're gonna, um, we're gonna really start to, I think be... Hopefully it's a, an incentive to get people back into the, the trade industry because- I
[00:12:29] Hamish: think it is already.
[00:12:30] Yeah. I, I think there's more of a, a, you know,
[00:12:33] Adam: I- So, yeah ...
[00:12:34] Hamish: I, I, I know I'm getting a lot more mature aged people changing industries now, contacting me saying, "Oh, I'm really keen to get into carpentry."
[00:12:40] Adam: Yeah.
[00:12:41] Hamish: Like, I think the writing's on the wall.
[00:12:43] Adam: Yeah. So I got, like, an AI coach, um, that I work with at the moment.
[00:12:47] Um-
[00:12:47] Hamish: Is it an AI bot that you've made?
[00:12:48] Adam: Yeah. Not quite. Adam from OpsCode is his name. He's awesome. Um, he's taught me so much, but- Is he a
[00:12:53] Hamish: real person?
[00:12:54] Adam: He's a real person, yeah. Okay, right. Um, but, like anything, like, um, I'm [00:13:00] self-taught, but I also got, like, help. There's been other people, like Luke, Future Builder, he's taught me- Yeah
[00:13:05] like a mountain about AI. And then I've also got an AI, AI coach. But anyway, where I'm getting with that is that Adam, he actually, um, one of his businesses is helping uni students that have gone and done their degree that are now probably not gonna be able to get jobs 'cause of AI, putting them into industries and other businesses where they can get some experience-
[00:13:27] Hamish: Wow
[00:13:28] Adam: and get a job, so. I
[00:13:30] Hamish: mean, that's probably, that's another example of a job opportunity that's come up because of AI.
[00:13:36] Adam: That's what I mean. The, there you go, so.
[00:13:38] Matt: And we don't know what these jobs are yet, by the way, because- No, we don't ... if we did, we would have the answers. But, um, I, I, I, I think that, I think we're seeing a lot of builders start to implement it in their business.
[00:13:49] Yeah. Are we seeing architects and other, like, engineers and stuff running it? I don't, I don't know.
[00:13:54] Adam: I think there's, uh, I don't know Yeah, hard to say, but I think, um, [00:14:00] it's like the building industry, like the early adopters will move ahead with that. Like with any architects, engineers, and that, the ones that actually just accept that it's here-
[00:14:10] Hamish: Yeah
[00:14:10] Adam: and it's a tool, and that it's gonna help them be more efficient, them ones are gonna push ahead in the industry. Yeah, I
[00:14:17] Hamish: agree.
[00:14:18] Adam: Yep.
[00:14:19] Hamish: I agree.
[00:14:19] Adam: Yeah. And the ones that put, and the ones that fight against it are the ones that are gonna drop off.
[00:14:23] Hamish: Um, I also feel, and I think I've said this before, and this is not because I'm not, not against AI at all, 'cause I absolutely am.
[00:14:30] I'd love to learn more and be better at it. But I think there's a lot of people out there just using it for fluffy bullshit. Oh. That, "Oh, I've made this dashboard"- Like dress your cat up ... or I've... No, no, no. "I've made this dashboard, I've made this app." I'm like, "Why?"
[00:14:44] Adam: Yeah. "
[00:14:44] Hamish: What problem's it solving?"
[00:14:45] Adam: That's right.
[00:14:46] Hamish: Like, I think the, the, what you're doing, and I know we'll talk about it later, like you're actually doing things that help supercharge your business.
[00:14:54] Adam: Yep.
[00:14:55] Hamish: Like it's not- That's right. Like I think all these apps are great, but I think if you don't have the other [00:15:00] fundamentals around it sorted out, then there's no point having a nice fucking app that you can look at your phone to-
[00:15:06] Adam: Yeah, that's right.
[00:15:07] Like, yeah, like vibe coding's massive now, and everyone's building apps. What is vibe
[00:15:11] Matt: coding?
[00:15:12] Adam: It's pretty much like coding, building a- apps as, like what would a developer would have to used to do, um, to build applications- Yeah ... softwares.
[00:15:22] Hamish: But the difference is, and correct me- But- ... if I'm, I'm gonna be the worst person to explain this, but I'm gonna try.
[00:15:26] Adam: Yeah.
[00:15:26] Hamish: Um, using Claude Code, if I'm- Yeah ... if I'm not mistaken, you can just talk to it and tell it what to do.
[00:15:32] Adam: Yeah.
[00:15:32] Hamish: Whereas before, you had to actually type out
[00:15:36] Matt: the code. Yeah. Are you these, are these apps, are they sitting on like your iPhone?
[00:15:39] Adam: So yeah, they're sitting wherever you create them. So you host them on like systems like Vercel.
[00:15:45] So they're just code, um, and then you host them like on the web. Yeah. So, so they're just like a HTML.
[00:15:52] Matt: Yeah,
[00:15:52] Adam: yeah. And you can give people access to them. So yeah.
[00:15:56] Matt: But, but it's great for things like even building presentations. I had to build a [00:16:00] presentation during the week and pull all the information. It's about a full PowerPoint, and I just tweaked it.
[00:16:03] Adam: Yep.
[00:16:04] Matt: Probably saved me a good eight hours to put the presentation together.
[00:16:06] Adam: Yeah, and this is, and this is the real eye mock. Like I did a presentation the other day, and because I understand AI and, um, I've got a good folder structure, and I've got skills that are like my brand identity in that, I was able to punch out a presentation, um, in about probably 10 minutes because I had a lot of context about old presentations I'd, um- Yeah
[00:16:28] done. It's, you know, it's heard me have conversations with it. It's recorded meetings that I've had. It's recorded, um, Google Meets that I've had with clients in WonderOps. So it was able to take all of that context and build out something within five minutes.
[00:16:44] Matt: But I also think there's
[00:16:45] Adam: people
[00:16:45] Matt: that say, "Oh, I'm not using AI.
[00:16:47] I don't use AI in my business." You are. Yeah. Because most people are transcribing their meeting minutes on whether they use Fathom or they use Google Meet. Yeah. Like that's AI. Like you having Siri on your phone is AI. I was just about to say, "Hey, Siri." Yeah, like-
[00:16:59] Adam: What does, [00:17:00] um There's a guy that said to me the other day that he doesn't trust it.
[00:17:06] AI. How do you trust it? What was his name? And then in the sentence... Oh, I won't say his name. And then the sentence before was how he uses meeting, um, recording apps.
[00:17:17] Hamish: I'm
[00:17:17] Adam: like, well- So,
[00:17:19] Matt: so ... he, not s- I was like sitting on the end of it typing away going, "Oh, I've got to keep up with, with John
[00:17:23] Adam: Who's" Like, hate to break it to you, mate, you're already using it.
[00:17:25] Hamish: Yeah.
[00:17:27] Matt: But, but even like checkout counters and stuff have been using it- Yeah ... for, for a wh- like, get over it And
[00:17:31] Hamish: do you know what? Yeah. I'm so- I'm sorry to say, like, if you're worried about protecting your fucking-
[00:17:35] Matt: Privacy ...
[00:17:35] Hamish: privacy-
[00:17:36] Adam: Yeah ...
[00:17:37] Hamish: every motherfucker has a smartphone.
[00:17:39] Adam: Yeah, that's right.
[00:17:40] Hamish: Data. It is tracking you, and tr- if you have a con- We, we'll probably have a conversation today about something, and next minute I'm gonna have some ad pop up-
[00:17:48] Adam: Yeah,
[00:17:49] Hamish: exactly
[00:17:49] on my phone.
[00:17:49] Matt: Google knows if we swap seats and moved across, like if I moved
[00:17:52] Hamish: from here to there. Yeah, I, I just think- Literally ... uh, and don't get me wrong, I, I fucking hate that that's the case, but that's the reality.
[00:17:57] Adam: That's, yeah.
[00:17:58] Hamish: That is the reality.
[00:17:59] Matt: I don't really g- I [00:18:00] don't really don't care.
[00:18:00] Adam: I don't care.
[00:18:01] I- Yeah. Like,
[00:18:01] Matt: if that's- To be honest ... if that, if that's the biggest problem in my life, like...
[00:18:04] Adam: There's 400 billion people in the world. I don't think they give a fuck about what I'm doing.
[00:18:08] Matt: And you know what? If you do the right thing, who cares?
[00:18:10] Adam: Yeah,
[00:18:10] Matt: that's it. Like, the people, like, who cares if you, if you, like, uh, and you see these like, oh, Bunnings is scanning people's face and stuff.
[00:18:17] Don't steal shit.
[00:18:18] Adam: Mm.
[00:18:19] Matt: Like...
[00:18:19] Adam: Yeah. That's right. If you're doing the right things, um, yeah, I don't think there's anything to worry about. It's-
[00:18:25] Matt: Yeah ...
[00:18:26] Adam: um...
[00:18:26] Matt: I don't, I, I'm just not scared of it, and whilst I think we need to question certain things- Yeah ... um, and we need to have policy and stuff around how we maybe build these data centers where and all that sort of stuff-
[00:18:38] Hamish: Yeah
[00:18:38] Matt: I th- I think that-
[00:18:39] Hamish: And, and, and also considerations about the environmental effects of all the data centers. Like, I'm like, "Look, this stuff's gonna happen, and if it's not gonna happen..." Like, I would rather see a data center get built here in Australia that is meeting some kind of fucking environmental standard- Yeah
[00:18:55] than it be some- Shipped off somewhere overseas ... somewhere else where they're just gonna fell a fucking [00:19:00] forest and not give two shits about it- Yeah ... and then steal all the water out of a, out of a- River ... you know, pristine river. I'd much prefer it, uh, to happen here where there's some kind of regulation about it, 'cause the reality is they're gonna get built anyway.
[00:19:10] Adam: Yeah, that's it.
[00:19:11] Hamish: So.
[00:19:11] Adam: Yep, agree.
[00:19:13] Hamish: Uh, I would like it if it didn't happen- ... but, like, it, it's gonna happen, so. So how safe
[00:19:17] Matt: is it, do you think?
[00:19:18] Hamish: I know the answer to this, I just need to ask, 'cause people are like, "Oh, I don't want it stealing all my stuff."
[00:19:23] Adam: Um, well, there's things called guardrails that you put in place, and at the end of the day it's, um, if you're uncomfortable about giving it information, just don't give it to it.
[00:19:33] Only put in what you're comfortable giving it. Um- Yeah, like don't give
[00:19:37] Matt: it your credit card number.
[00:19:37] Adam: Yeah, exactly. Like, I t- you know, I don't give it any- Passwords ... of me contracts or passwords or, you know... And you ha- you really have to be on top of it, um, like when you start vibe coding and building apps and that, understanding, like, what API keys are and .e- env files and that to keep your keys and all that secret.
[00:19:57] Yeah. So you've gotta have an understanding of that [00:20:00] structure, but, um- '
[00:20:01] Matt: Cause if people get your... Correct me if I'm wrong, if people get those keys, you can, like-
[00:20:06] Adam: Yeah ...
[00:20:06] Matt: potentially
[00:20:06] Adam: drain a bank account. They basically get access to you. Yeah. Yeah. So if you build, vibe code an app, so, like, my Wonder ops app- Yeah
[00:20:12] it's got, um, API connections to, like, Xero, so it can send invoices. Um, it's got API connections to me Gmail and that, but all them keys to get into it are hidden. Does that make sense? Yeah. Where it can't,
[00:20:25] Hamish: can't
[00:20:25] Adam: be accessed.
[00:20:25] Hamish: For, for people who don't know what an API connection is, can you just, you know, as you're- Yeah
[00:20:30] if you're explaining it to a 12-year-old or a 44-year-old builder-
[00:20:34] Adam: Yep ...
[00:20:34] Hamish: from Warrandyte- Yep ... who owns a company called Sanctum Homes.
[00:20:37] Adam: I'll try explain this the best I can, 'cause- I do know what an API... Yeah, yeah ... Hashi from Wonder Build explained it. It's like the highway into, um, into a city, I suppose.
[00:20:47] Hamish: Yeah.
[00:20:47] Adam: So, like, you got all your different roads, and that's what API keys are. They're just roads into different parts of the, um, the city, I suppose-
[00:20:55] Hamish: Right ...
[00:20:56] Adam: or town. So it's, um... Yeah, and then [00:21:00] inside of that, um, then you got your tools and all your different areas inside of it that can, um, that can access it, but yeah.
[00:21:07] They're like
[00:21:07] Hamish: your skills. So, so, okay- Sort of ... so there's API, and then there's an, uh, M- MPC.
[00:21:13] Adam: MCP.
[00:21:13] Hamish: MCP.
[00:21:14] Adam: Yeah.
[00:21:14] Hamish: So what's the difference between those two?
[00:21:16] Adam: Well, the MCP, similar in a way. It's like, so the way I explain an MCP, and I do this on me webinars, and I don't know if this is the correct, um, like the best analogy for it, but this is the way I understand it, is if you think of like, um, the large language model or the harness, um- If you think of it, it's like the city, okay?
[00:21:41] And then inside that city you got, um, a heap of apartment buildings, okay? So the MCP is the front door into those apartment buildings. So if Wonder Build has got its own MCP, it's an apartment building, okay? So
[00:21:55] Hamish: Wonder Build's the apartment building?
[00:21:56] Adam: Wonder Build's the apartment building.
[00:21:58] Hamish: Yep.
[00:21:58] Adam: Okay? The MCP is the [00:22:00] front door.
[00:22:00] Hamish: The code to get in.
[00:22:01] Adam: Yep. Yeah. The code to get in, and then inside that MCP there's things called tools, okay? And they're all the levels of the building. Yeah. Okay? So each level, just like Wonder Build, it's got different areas, it's got leads, estimations- Yeah ... they're all different levels in the apartment building.
[00:22:17] Yeah. Does that make sense? So the MCP is just letting you into the apartment building where you can get to those different levels.
[00:22:22] Hamish: Right, and then you're using the tools or skills to then access the different levels.
[00:22:26] Adam: Yes. Yeah. Correct. Yeah. Yep.
[00:22:29] Matt: How do you think it changes the industry? Like, what do you actually think, say, in three or four years, our industry looks in construction with AI in it?
[00:22:37] What do you think it actually does?
[00:22:39] Adam: It's all the builders that, if they adopt it, all the builders that have come into the industry 'cause they're carpenters and they like building things, probably gets them back on site, on the tools, out of the, out of the, um, the weeds and the stuff that bogs them down.
[00:22:55] Matt: So- So take... And, and it's usually taking those tasks that no one wants to do.
[00:22:58] Adam: Exactly. Like- There's so much, [00:23:00] um, so much stuff in a building company that you do that's unique, but there's so much stuff that's just the same repetitive stuff that you have to do. Like having
[00:23:08] Matt: to send, send out an invoice for a statement.
[00:23:09] Adam: Send out an invoice, you know?
[00:23:11] Matt: And, and it's, they're all like-
[00:23:12] Adam: Processing, processing data like invoices. That's a-
[00:23:15] Matt: They're all micro tasks, so-
[00:23:16] Adam: Exactly ...
[00:23:17] Matt: you might have 100 of them that need to be done each week, but it'll take five minutes.
[00:23:20] Adam: Yeah, that's right.
[00:23:21] Matt: And then if they're ones that can go like- Yeah ... um, just like uploading a purchase order- Yeah
[00:23:26] or sending out a purchase order.
[00:23:27] Adam: Correct.
[00:23:28] Matt: Yeah. Once you give it the right information.
[00:23:30] Adam: So, like, that's what it unlocked for me. So when I went all in on AI, it bought me back so much time that I had two options. I could either go back on the tools with the boys, I could either grow the business or I could start Wonder Ops, and I started Wonder Ops.
[00:23:42] So...
[00:23:43] Matt: When did you realize it could save you a ton of time? Like, what, what... Was there a certain moment or task you're like, "Oh, shit, this is real powerful"? Was there something that you remember being like, "Whoa"?
[00:23:55] Adam: Definitely like a lot of the pre-construction stuff, so I'm gonna [00:24:00] say estimating but not estimating. Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So all the rigmarole that comes with estimating, so-
[00:24:06] Hamish: Trade
[00:24:06] Adam: marks. Um, yeah, that's right. Making sure-
[00:24:08] Hamish: Scopes, scopes, scopes of works ...
[00:24:09] Adam: scopes of works, making sure-
[00:24:11] Hamish: Ch- chasing up quotes, yeah
[00:24:11] Adam: chasing up quotes, making sure that there's no $0 items in your estimate. Does that make sense? Yeah. So you might have just missed a line item, or you've got the quantity of one there, but the dollar value is zero. Like, it will just fly through and review all that for you. Um, so yeah, that sort of stuff. Um, if you talk about it in sales, so, like, automations and AI through sales.
[00:24:34] So, like, um, meeting bookings, following up clients, um, you know, chasing them up for documents, um, all that sort of stuff. Like, it's just, there's so many things in a building company, and AI can touch just about every section of it, I reckon.
[00:24:48] Matt: Do, do you think there's a, a potential issue, though, where what happens is it might save hypothetically two employees at your business?
[00:24:55] Adam: Mm-hmm.
[00:24:56] Matt: So saves you a good, we'll call it just e- easy $200,000 a [00:25:00] year. Just rough num- just $200,000 wages. I'm just gonna make that up. But now they can jack the price up on these programs because they know that you've saved 100, $200,000, but it's gonna cost you 50 grand a year to run.
[00:25:10] Adam: Mm.
[00:25:10] Matt: Do you think that ends up happening?
[00:25:12] Adam: Potentially.
[00:25:13] Hamish: I was actually- But it
[00:25:14] Adam: buys you back time.
[00:25:15] Matt: Yeah.
[00:25:15] Hamish: I was having a chat with my mate, his name's Adam as well- Yep ... but he's got a, he's got a business which basically is a tech business- Mm ... but it's, but it's in the sleep apnea, um, space.
[00:25:25] Matt: To make you sleep better?
[00:25:27] Hamish: It helps. He, he, what they're doing helps, yes, sleep people sleep.
[00:25:30] But he was saying that if he paid retail for the amount of tokens that he's using, it'd be 50 grand a month.
[00:25:37] Adam: Yeah.
[00:25:38] Hamish: What?
[00:25:39] Adam: Yep.
[00:25:39] Hamish: So at the moment he's paying might be four grand a month, and that because, because all the tokens are so heavily discounted, actual retail is like they're, they're going backwards at the moment.
[00:25:51] Adam: Yeah.
[00:25:51] Hamish: Yeah. Like-
[00:25:52] Adam: There's, and that's where like people get caught up in Vibe Code and building their own stuff. Mm-hmm. But, and we, which I'll get into later with WonderBuild, [00:26:00] um, and why I love it so much, but like you can get carried away with building all these tools and that for your business, but you really need to just stop and go, "Is this moving the needle?"
[00:26:09] Yeah. "Is it helping me?"
[00:26:10] Hamish: Yeah. '
[00:26:10] Adam: Cause it's still costing you money. You might think it's not, but-
[00:26:13] Hamish: Yeah ...
[00:26:14] Adam: you know, if you've got 10 Vibe Coded apps, or maybe not that many, I might be being extreme, that you're paying tokens on with, um, you know, custom API keys and all that going into it. So, um, you know, you're using the Claude console account, which is a little bit more dearer I think than using the other stuff.
[00:26:31] Like it's gonna cost you a fair bit of money and time.
[00:26:34] Matt: And that's what it is now, like he's going to substantially increase over time the price of these subscriptions.
[00:26:39] Hamish: Mm. Well, this is what Adam and I were talking, not this Adam, but my other Adam mate. He's like, you know, and, and it does ask the question, what happens when Anthropic turns around and said, "Well, we're gonna jack the price up," and everyone else has like tailored their business around using so much AI?
[00:26:54] Like if, if- They make
[00:26:55] Matt: bank.
[00:26:56] Hamish: Yeah, but if your business went up, your cost of your, to [00:27:00] using, um, Claude, for example, per month went up from two grand to 50 grand- Yep ... would you keep paying that?
[00:27:07] Adam: Probably not.
[00:27:10] Hamish: So, I mean, I guess I-
[00:27:11] Matt: What if you just save two wages though? Yeah, but, but they're gonna- Like that's, that, but there's, there's a lot of information that's gonna go into this about they're gonna find that sweet spot.
[00:27:18] Hamish: My, I guess, um, my theory is that they're, that they're, they're, it's all a loss leader at the moment to the point where they find out how to do it cheaper.
[00:27:25] Adam: Yeah. Well, it's gonna get cheaper, I think.
[00:27:27] Hamish: Yeah. That's- Well, it has to get cheaper.
[00:27:28] Adam: Yeah.
[00:27:29] Hamish: It has
[00:27:29] Adam: to get cheaper. Every technology has got cheaper and all that- Yeah
[00:27:32] over.
[00:27:32] Matt: Yeah. But what makes it expensive right now? What? The
[00:27:35] Hamish: infrastructure.
[00:27:36] Adam: Yeah.
[00:27:37] Matt: Just to build it all out.
[00:27:37] Hamish: Infrastructure's wild.
[00:27:39] Adam: Yeah.
[00:27:39] Hamish: Yeah. Um, what do you think it looks like for a builder that's just turning their head on it and putting their head in the sand? Fast-forward five years, if they're like, "You know what?
[00:27:50] I'm not, I'm not buying any of this shit. I'm worried that it's gonna take my, you know, it's gonna... I, I, I wanna protect my data."
[00:27:57] Adam: Yeah.
[00:27:57] Hamish: He
[00:27:57] Matt: won't have a job.
[00:27:58] Adam: Yeah. Well, they're just gonna struggle to [00:28:00] compete, aren't they? Yeah. Because these other builders are gonna be more efficient, they're gonna be cheaper, they're gonna be better at marketing.
[00:28:05] Hamish: Yeah.
[00:28:05] Adam: They're gonna be better at finding the clients. So it's not, you know, the game of building's not about building the house anymore, and you two know this-
[00:28:12] Hamish: Yeah ...
[00:28:12] Adam: more than anyone. It's, you know, it's all about getting it to site to build it.
[00:28:17] Hamish: So do you think that the, that the cost savings are before you start building?
[00:28:23] Adam: Yep.
[00:28:24] Hamish: That's where, that's where the key is.
[00:28:25] Adam: There's cost savings during building, but-
[00:28:27] Matt: Yeah ...
[00:28:27] Hamish: that's definitely- Like, I reckon the biggest ones are pre-construction Yeah, pretty much
[00:28:29] Matt: are. Like, I'll use m- I'll use Kayla, for example. She went overseas for four weeks to Europe, and I reckon half her tasks I took and automated it.
[00:28:35] Hamish: Yeah.
[00:28:35] Matt: N- but not s- Like, she now has f- and-
[00:28:37] Hamish: Kayla, to Kayla, you've got a job when you
[00:28:38] Matt: come home, right? No, but the thing is, like, she now has more... The tasks she's now taking on are more fun. Mm. She probably enjoys it more. Yeah. Like, some of the tasks she didn't wanna do. She didn't wanna put in my labor hours and crosscheck it and make sure everything's done.
[00:28:50] Mm. Like, that's not fun.
[00:28:52] Adam: Yeah.
[00:28:52] Matt: Like, that can be done with a click of fingers. Every day I can have an update now on where the labor sits.
[00:28:56] Adam: Yeah.
[00:28:57] Matt: Which then in turn makes me able to make better decisions, so I [00:29:00] can potentially b- build cheaper. So-
[00:29:02] Adam: Better decisions quicker.
[00:29:03] Matt: Yeah. '
[00:29:03] Adam: Cause you're not reviewing it, you know, you're not waiting till your Friday to review all your labor and see where you're at, or, "I missed that Friday, so it's next month."
[00:29:11] You just literally could be in the car and prompt-
[00:29:14] Matt: Yeah ...
[00:29:14] Adam: and ask Claude and you know.
[00:29:16] Matt: Like, one of the best things I have- You can
[00:29:17] Adam: move faster ...
[00:29:18] Matt: one of the best things I have is I've, I've got a bit of a skill that I created where I can upload, um, like, say for example, two... It was two, I'll even say what it was.
[00:29:27] It were two Logic House quotes that we had for Windows. It was, like, revision one and then revision two, and I just needed to, 'cause we were signing off on it, I just needed to make sure that everything that we asked for, everything that we had detailed, and all the changes were made to be accurate, and that, like, it w- it was all there and we hadn't missed anything.
[00:29:44] So, 'cause I'd gone through it, but architect had gone through it, and what had actually happened is one of the codes of the colors had changed. Mm. No one picked up on it. Mm. But, like, it picked up on it, so we probably saved ourselves a potential massive issue. I don't know what that color was gonna be, [00:30:00] but we were able to go, "Oh, shit, that's actually the color's changed.
[00:30:03] Yep, we've gotta fix that."
[00:30:04] Adam: Yeah.
[00:30:05] Matt: Like, so I think those were a great example of, like, it is a extra review. It doesn't mean that you can't not review anything. Like, you s- it's always awesome to have a human eye go over it, like the eye test always works great too, but it's gonna pick up on those little things which could have potentially cost someone a bit of money.
[00:30:21] Adam: Yeah, that's it.
[00:30:21] Hamish: For, for someone who, who's listening right now and is like, "Oh, this all just seems beyond me"- Yeah ... like, how quickly do you think you could turn their opinion around, and how easy would it be for them to then start utilizing the tools and the plugin and the skill and everything that you're talking about?
[00:30:39] Matt: Yeah. I've got a good answer to this. It's after you've gone.
[00:30:42] Adam: So the ones, the skills and the plugins and all that that I teach inside WonderBuild, you can pretty much adopt them straight away.
[00:30:49] Hamish: Yep.
[00:30:50] Adam: They're really easy. Um, to change their opinion around, I suppose- You really have to [00:31:00] Like, they'd really have to probably experience it and what it does to change their opinion around.
[00:31:07] I- Because until you're actually in the, in the room trying it and seeing what it can do and what it saves you- Yeah ... you probably, you know.
[00:31:15] Matt: So right now I've gone down to four-day work weeks, so I look after the little one on a Friday. Yep. Do not feel like I am... Like, you told me this two years ago, I'd be like, "No chance.
[00:31:24] I can find an extra... I, I gotta lose 10 hours of my work week at least." I'm working less than I ever have. I feel like I'm way more productive. I'm home at 4:30 every day, and I have Fridays off now, and I jump on my computer when she's asleep, but I would not be able to do it without that, and I feel my work's more efficient.
[00:31:43] Hamish: Mm.
[00:31:43] Matt: So I think that I've been able to get part of my work-life balance back, which I felt like I always had, but, like, I was doing easy 50 hours a week. I think the point of- Now I'm down to, like, 36, 38 hours a week.
[00:31:54] Hamish: I think the, I think the, the, probably the point of my question was not necessarily how you've implemented it, [00:32:00] because you're pretty savvy and you're
[00:32:02] Matt: But that's the bit, what I'm getting at is when people, like, w- what, they're sort of like, "What's in it for them?"
[00:32:05] Like, "Oh, this is all too much, this-" Time. That's the biggest thing. You were getting back
[00:32:08] Hamish: time. I think it was, I think it
[00:32:09] Matt: was
[00:32:09] Adam: more the- Time's the biggest... And when I explain it to people, the one thing it buys back is time. And you can't buy time. And you can't go buy time off a shelf-
[00:32:16] Hamish: Yeah ...
[00:32:17] Adam: at Bunnings.
[00:32:17] Hamish: Yeah.
[00:32:17] Adam: Like-
[00:32:18] Hamish: I think it was more, it was more like a leading question to, like- Yeah ... that it is not hard. That really, at the end of
[00:32:23] Adam: the day- It's not hard, no ... it's not hard. And there's levels of it. Yeah. That's the difference.
[00:32:25] Hamish: Yeah.
[00:32:25] Adam: There's different levels,
[00:32:26] Hamish: like anything. And I think what I, what I, you know, 'cause I've sat through your, your WonderBill, you know, five weeks thing, and what I really like about it is that it, it's just easy to make sense.
[00:32:34] Adam: Yeah.
[00:32:35] Hamish: Like, it's just like, "Cool, all right. Well, I'm gonna take that. I'm gonna work out how to it not to unzip when I download it." Yeah.
[00:32:43] Adam: Stop loading the page. Oh,
[00:32:44] Hamish: the,
[00:32:44] Matt: the amount of things, that's the best part. Like, h- like, the how-tos now, when you're like, "I need to do this on this program," or on, "How would I solve this program or an issue on my computer?"
[00:32:53] And it was literally step me, step by step by step to fix it. In the old days, I had to click until I could find what was happening.
[00:32:58] Adam: Do you know how many [00:33:00] people since my AI course have reached out to me with, "Hey, how do you do this, Adam?" Like, "I can't load the plugin in," "I can't load the skill in," "What's happening to me computer?"
[00:33:10] Um, "What do I change this setting?" I'm like, "Just stop. Have you thought about asking AI?" Yeah. So- Before you sent me that email that I responded to ...
[00:33:19] Hamish: so I have been that person.
[00:33:21] Adam: Yes. Just for context- But that's the AI first mindset, and that's, that's the first, I mean, that's the first step that everyone needs to take is have that, that reaction-
[00:33:32] Hamish: Yeah
[00:33:32] Adam: that-
[00:33:33] Hamish: Just stop ...
[00:33:33] Adam: just, "Can AI do this? Can AI answer this?" Yeah. That's, that's one thing that I teach in me course is next time you're doing something, when you're in front of a computer moving a mouse, clicking, sending an email, processing data, just stop and take a breath and think, "Can AI do this? Is this something that AI can handle for me?"
[00:33:54] Hamish: In that situation, what would be the next step then?
[00:33:58] Adam: for them to adopt it?
[00:33:59] Hamish: Yeah. Well, [00:34:00] if, if they're doing something on the computer, like, okay, if they're like, "Hang on a minute. W- can AI do this?" Mm. What's then the next step? Are they then punching that into, um- Good question ... into, into Claude?
[00:34:10] Adam: Yep.
[00:34:10] Hamish: So- Because, because th- there is a barrier there.
[00:34:12] Yeah. "Oh, I reckon I could automate this."
[00:34:14] Matt: Yeah. And just for context, you use Claude most of the time.
[00:34:16] Hamish: Yeah.
[00:34:16] Adam: I use Claude most of the time, but I also use ChatGPT Codex as well.
[00:34:19] Matt: Okay.
[00:34:20] Adam: Yep. And I'm gonna start looking into a bit of GroqBot, 'cause I've heard some good stuff and watched a fair few videos on it, and it looks pretty good and simple too.
[00:34:28] Matt: I've never even heard of that one.
[00:34:31] Adam: But there's, yeah, there's heaps of different harnesses. Um, but, um... Sorry, what was the question? What the- So the question
[00:34:37] Hamish: is, the question is I'm, I'm on my computer. Yeah. I'm putting some data in, and then, and then I'm like, "Hang on a minute. Adam told me that I need to think about AI first, and can I, uh, can AI do this?"
[00:34:47] Yep. What is the next step from there? Ask AI. Ask AI what
[00:34:51] Adam: is- Yeah. No, no, no, but like- Is it AI? ... it's literally, and this is how you gotta start, and you just gotta treat AI like any employee or any other person. So before AI and [00:35:00] computers, um, you know, not before computers, but let's say before AI five years ago, if you employed a bookkeeper or an admin staff, and you need to explain to her a process, what would you do?
[00:35:14] Hamish: Explain to her the process.
[00:35:15] Adam: Yeah. But how would you keep it, how would you document it so she knew what to do each time?
[00:35:19] Hamish: Uh, probably write a Word document or something.
[00:35:23] Adam: Yeah. So you'd write a series of steps- Yeah,
[00:35:25] Hamish: yeah, yeah ...
[00:35:25] Adam: that she's gotta take.
[00:35:26] Hamish: A workflow, yeah.
[00:35:27] Adam: So that's all you gotta do with AI.
[00:35:29] Hamish: And just give
[00:35:29] Adam: it to her.
[00:35:29] You've just gotta create the steps- Pretend you're a teaching an apprentice- Yeah ... how to swing a door on site, okay? And you're gonna write it down on a stick of 90 by 45 and leave it to him.
[00:35:42] Matt: It's the
[00:35:42] Adam: old 18- You gotta show him and leave it on a stick of 90 by 45 and go, "There you go. Follow them steps for the next one."
[00:35:47] You're probably not gonna do that. But that's the same way you gotta treat AI.
[00:35:50] Hamish: He, he... Okay, here's, here's, here's probably a relevant question then. Um, so how I will... Uh, I have an Excel spreadsheet- Mm-hmm ... that I fill out, and I- I've done it for the [00:36:00] last five years. Yep. Like, I could tell you where my team was in 2023- Yep
[00:36:04] what, what day, where they were, what job. Yep. And it's really, really simple, and I just repeat that every year- Yep ... 'cause it's a good way of just getting shit out of my head.
[00:36:11] Matt: Yep.
[00:36:11] Hamish: So every Friday, um, I'll complete that just so I know where it is.
[00:36:16] Matt: Yep.
[00:36:17] Hamish: Could I then, with the MCP connection into One2build, train Claude-
[00:36:24] Adam: Yep
[00:36:24] Hamish: to read that, to read the staff member-
[00:36:27] Adam: Yep ...
[00:36:28] Hamish: go into timesheets- Yep ... into Claude, and then populate that and send it out? It's already
[00:36:32] Matt: doing it, isn't it?
[00:36:34] Adam: Yeah, you 100% could do that, and I'd suggest you do it instead of doing it the other way.
[00:36:40] Hamish: So just-
[00:36:41] Adam: Yeah. Do,
[00:36:42] Hamish: do you- No, your timesheets. Yeah, sorry ... I, I, I... So I do...
[00:36:44] I... The only reason I do
[00:36:44] Adam: that- Is this past data, like, you're talking about?
[00:36:47] Hamish: No,
[00:36:47] Adam: no. So- So old data you're trying to get into One2build or-
[00:36:49] Hamish: No, no, no, no, no, no. I, I'm, like, literally, like, I'll, I'll send out... I'll use timesheets in- Yep ... in, or get the Ruster tool- Yeah, yeah ... in, in One2build. But before I put it in [00:37:00] there- I've always got this, um, other Excel spreadsheet open, and I'm always thinking of four or five weeks ahead.
[00:37:08] Matt: Mm-hmm.
[00:37:08] Hamish: Um, 'cause I might get an email or a text message saying- Yeah ... "Hey, by the way, um, I need... Just, I'm just getting it, this out of my head right now, 'cause I might need a cup some labor- Yeah ... like in th- three weeks' time." Yeah. So I'll jump into the Excel spreadsheet and just put someone's name next to a job.
[00:37:23] Adam: Yeah, yeah.
[00:37:24] Hamish: And then as, as we get down to each week, every Friday when I'm rostering the next week-
[00:37:29] Adam: Yeah ...
[00:37:30] Hamish: I'll- Oh, you
[00:37:30] Adam: roster
[00:37:31] Matt: your weeks, do you?
[00:37:31] Hamish: I roster my weeks, yeah. Oh, okay.
[00:37:33] Matt: Yeah.
[00:37:33] Adam: So yes, like in simple terms, that's a perfect use case for AI to get that data into Wonderbuild. I guess that, that, that's
[00:37:40] Hamish: what I was asking,
[00:37:41] Adam: like- And this is, like, this is where, um, if you use an AI properly and with artifacts and custom dashboards and stuff like that, it's a way of collating data.
[00:37:50] So if you've got data that lives in multiple different sources, so if you've got your data in Wonderbuild, you've got your data in Xero, um, and you've got your data in maybe some [00:38:00] other platforms. I know Asana, in your case.
[00:38:01] Hamish: Yep.
[00:38:02] Adam: What you can do is collate all that data, and that's what the MCPs and API connections do.
[00:38:08] It pushes and pulls information from both, collates it, and then you can build your own custom dashboard. So you wouldn't even have to have your Excel spreadsheet. You could just create an artifact where you're going in there and filling it out, if you didn't like the Wonderbuild rostering setup.
[00:38:23] Hamish: So I'll still fill out the Wonderbuild rostering thing.
[00:38:26] Adam: Yep.
[00:38:26] Hamish: But this Excel spreadsheet is just-
[00:38:27] Adam: But you shouldn't have to, 'cause it, you should be able to just- Pull it ... mount it and pull that information- Yeah, okay ... into Wonderbuild. 'Cause you do one or another. Right. That's a mental step. So that's- Yeah ... that's a perfect eg- of example of stopping and taking a breath and thinking, "Can AI do
[00:38:39] Hamish: this?"
[00:38:39] But that's exact- Yeah ... that's exactly why I brought it up. Yeah, yeah. Because, like, this, this is very manual and that's just getting it out of my head. But then I'll, I'll open up Wonderbuild every Friday- Yeah ... and then I'll go through and I'll click on the date, and I'll click on the name, and I... You know what I'm...
[00:38:52] And I know you're laughing
[00:38:52] Matt: because you probably- Yeah. You could just use this thing Pocket like I've got here. You could talk it through, and it automatically sends it to your Excel file, which then Wonderbuild will pull it, and you've, all you've done in the [00:39:00] car is you talked it through. Yeah.
[00:39:01] Hamish: So-
[00:39:02] Adam: And, uh, there's nothing wrong with what you're doing.
[00:39:03] Matt: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's
[00:39:03] Adam: just like-
[00:39:04] Hamish: And I think this is where I struggle with it, right? Yeah. Because when we st- And I, and I, I guess intellectually understand what it's doing.
[00:39:11] Adam: Yeah.
[00:39:11] Hamish: But then all of a sudden, I'll ha- I'll have all this noise in my head of like Just not quite understanding.
[00:39:19] Adam: Mm-hmm.
[00:39:19] Matt: I think it's the only thing you, for a long time, that you probably don't need to understand how it works.
[00:39:25] It's not like building. Who cares how it works? It will just do it. I think that's the hard part- Mm ... that, that sometimes we struggle
[00:39:31] Hamish: with. But I, I guess the, the, the
[00:39:32] Matt: point I'm making is that
[00:39:33] Hamish: for you two, it seems very clear and logical. Yeah. For me, it's not.
[00:39:37] Adam: No. Um, it's just time, innit? Yeah. Like... Do you know what I mean?
[00:39:43] Yeah. It's like, how do you get good at a golf swing?
[00:39:46] Matt: You can't.
[00:39:47] Adam: No. I don't know if that's probably the best analogy, actually. But, like, yeah, I suppose the more, the more time you spend in it, the more you understand it- Yeah ... and the more you feel comfortable with it. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah. So while if you've got it at arm's length, [00:40:00] and you're just dabbling in it, it's always gonna seem a bit m- you know-
[00:40:04] Hamish: Yeah, okay
[00:40:04] Adam: a bit mysterious to not understand it, but-
[00:40:06] Matt: And don't jump to the hard tasks first. Yeah. Start with the real, just, do, like, um, just use it for some of the most basic things that you ever... Like, go take your introduction file that you would send out to a client, upload it, and ask it to critique on how you'd fix it.
[00:40:19] Exactly.
[00:40:20] Hamish: That was so simple like that. I, so I do, I, I mean, I do all that stuff anyway, right? Yeah. Yeah. Like, I, I'm doing all of that. I think for me, the next step is all the automation stuff. So- Yeah ... I mean, I think it's probably a- That's ha- I haven't got to that, mate ... I reckon it's a pretty good-
[00:40:30] Adam: But that's another over, over-hyped thing.
[00:40:32] Yeah. Agents and automations. Yeah. Like- It's, um, when I say over-hyped, it's like, it's, it's made out to be mo- more over-complicated than what it is. And like if we talk about in the Claude environment at the moment, 'cause of what we use, and this is another thing that I talk about on my webinar, all an agent is, is a skill, which is what we talked about before, a set of steps.
[00:40:56] Okay? So an SOP on how to do a certain [00:41:00] process, all the buttons you have to click, all the areas you have to go to, all things that have to be processed on a cadence that's on a scheduled task. So do it every-
[00:41:09] Matt: Yeah ...
[00:41:09] Adam: um, you know, every Friday morning. That's why skill- There is more complexities and, um, there is more-
[00:41:15] Matt: Learn to write a skill first.
[00:41:16] That's probably the easiest thing, and I... That's what I would suggest is like, um, yeah
[00:41:20] Adam: So the, there's inside Claude, there's a skill-
[00:41:23] Matt: Builder ...
[00:41:23] Adam: building skill.
[00:41:24] Matt: Yeah.
[00:41:24] Adam: So you forward slash- Old-fashioned
[00:41:25] Matt: skill ...
[00:41:26] Adam: skill creator.
[00:41:27] Matt: Yeah.
[00:41:27] Adam: And it will create the skill for you. So all you've gotta do is just talk about what you need done.
[00:41:33] So, "Hey, what I need you to do is go into be zero invoices in OneBuild, and I need you to allocate all of those invoices to my costing categories by either, you know, matching up the purchase order, matching up the reference number, just working out where we are in the schedule and the job, and then going to those categories and going, 'Well, he's booked it up this day.
[00:41:54] It must logically go, you know, they'll concrete.' And so-
[00:41:57] Hamish: Yeah ...
[00:41:58] Adam: um, it's probably reinforcement." And
[00:41:59] Hamish: when you- [00:42:00] And
[00:42:00] Adam: it goes that far ...
[00:42:00] Hamish: and when, and when you're saying you're talking to it, you're using something like WhisperFlow?
[00:42:04] Adam: WhisperFlow, yeah.
[00:42:04] Matt: Or you can even just use Claude create a skill. Like, you can literally click record and it will record- Yeah
[00:42:08] your screen, and you start talking through what you're doing. So, "Oh, I need to invoice this or this, how we do a purchase order or actually an invoice. We go to this button here, and then we go to this job because we know that's the one that hasn't been claimed yet because we've approved it." Yeah. "Can we press send, send?"
[00:42:21] So it writes the skill with a step-by-step-by-step for you. Mm-hmm. And then you can turn that, and then we'll turn that into a skill if you need.
[00:42:27] Adam: Yeah. Yeah. Record a skill. Yeah. Like, I think it's only been out... It's on Mac. I don't know if it's on, um- Microsoft yet, but, um, yeah, it's another awesome one. Like, it's just following your mouse, taking screenshots, seeing what you're doing, you talk into it, and then bang, you got a skill.
[00:42:41] Matt: What are, like, the, the best three to five AI tools you use right now?
[00:42:45] Adam: Um
[00:42:46] Matt: Including Claude.
[00:42:47] Adam: Including the harness? Um, yeah, so Claude, um, obviously. Yeah. I think it's, it's the best all-round for building.
[00:42:54] Matt: Yep.
[00:42:55] Adam: Um, Granola-
[00:42:57] Matt: Yep ...
[00:42:58] Adam: is another good one. It's for [00:43:00] meeting recording.
[00:43:00] Matt: Yep.
[00:43:01] Adam: Um, the Way to Build MCP server, it's not AI, but it's, like, it unlocks the most AI- For a builder
[00:43:08] for a building company. Yeah. Yep. Um, Whisper Flow is a really good another
[00:43:12] Matt: one. You don't use Whisper Flow for their meeting minutes? I've started using that
[00:43:15] Adam: recently. Nah, so I use... I, I just like Granola. It's got really good APIs. Um- Yeah, okay ... it's, the reason I love Granola is 'cause it's got an Apple Watch.
[00:43:23] Matt: And you can
[00:43:23] Adam: record straight- Um, it's really, r- really inconspicuous. And I don't mean that in a way that you're trying to catch people out, but, like, if you're walking around on site, you could be using your phone, talking to... You might be walking through doing a rough-in, um, mark-out with a plumber or electrician or something, and, you know, you could be, um, using your phone, cycling through plans or looking at messages or whatever, and it's still recording on your phone, taking all the-
[00:43:49] Matt: Do you let people know you're recording?
[00:43:51] Adam: Um, yeah, most of the time.
[00:43:53] Matt: Yeah, I think it's fair. But I would have no problem, like, "Hey" So is that what your-
[00:43:55] Adam: Well, it's not, it's not record, it's note-taking. Is that- This is where we need to flip the switch, [00:44:00] like- Yeah,
[00:44:00] Matt: it's not trying to catch people
[00:44:01] Adam: up ... it's no- It just makes
[00:44:01] Matt: everyone's life
[00:44:02] Adam: easier ... like, in a pre-construction meeting, like, if I'm sitting there with clients, you know, it's not, it's not recording you, it's taking notes.
[00:44:09] Do you know what I mean? It's not... You know, there's 15,000 things that we're gonna discuss over a life cycle of a building, and it's impossible for us to capture all that without these tools or an assistant coming along jotting down notes for you- Yeah ... in the meeting.
[00:44:21] Hamish: Yeah. It's impossible. And even still they won't capture everything.
[00:44:23] That, that, that watch you're wearing now, is that a Granola watch?
[00:44:25] Adam: Uh, it's a Apple Watch.
[00:44:27] Hamish: Oh, so it's Apple Watch. Yeah. Okay. With, with a-
[00:44:29] Adam: Granola app ...
[00:44:30] Hamish: app. Yeah So
[00:44:31] Matt: I use Pocket instead
[00:44:32] Adam: Yeah, so Pocket's- Same thing ... Pocket's like the voice recorder that slaps on the back of your phone, and I've got that as well.
[00:44:37] The only thing that, like I was saying before that was cau- catching me out with that is I walk around with earphones in all day, so it wasn't picking up on that, but-
[00:44:44] Matt: So Granola will pick up on the headphone part?
[00:44:46] Adam: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:44:47] Matt: Okay.
[00:44:48] Adam: But if you, like, if you're a good honest person and you're just trying to take down notes, then you know what I mean?
[00:44:53] And, well- It's, it's,
[00:44:54] Matt: it's a- ... just send to the client, we just send to the client too if we use it.
[00:44:56] Adam: Yeah, that's
[00:44:57] Matt: right. "Okay,
[00:44:57] Adam: here's the notes." Yeah, well, that's right. It's, um, [00:45:00] yeah, it's just a note-taker. Change your language.
[00:45:02] Matt: Yeah. Yeah. And what, um- Yeah ... any- anything else that you use?
[00:45:05] Adam: Uh, WhisperFlow is really good.
[00:45:06] Yeah. Oh, you've put me on the spot now. But yeah, mainly, mainly just, um,
[00:45:12] Matt: yeah. Less is, less is more.
[00:45:13] Adam: Less is more. That's, and that's, that's another thing that I teach in me webinar is all you need, and this is why I try to bring it back simple for builders, have a really good operating system and a really good, uh, large language model, talking to it, and that's pretty much all you need outside your normal tools.
[00:45:29] With, with, with your
[00:45:29] Hamish: operating system being
[00:45:30] Matt: WonderBuild?
[00:45:31] Adam: Operating system being WonderBuild, yep.
[00:45:32] Matt: So we may as well get onto- WonderOps ... WonderOps. All right, so that is your other business. Talk, what is WonderOps?
[00:45:39] Adam: So, WonderOps in a nutshell is a consulting business that I have that I teach and help builders set up their WonderBuild.
[00:45:49] Matt: Yep.
[00:45:49] Adam: To be a single source of truth, and that's, that's the very important part, to be the single source of truth. Um, too many builders have got scattered systems, too many tools, [00:46:00] shit everywhere, and it needs to be all consolidated into one program-
[00:46:04] Hamish: Yep ...
[00:46:04] Adam: where they know all the information is. 'Cause once I had that realization in my business, everything became easier.
[00:46:13] Hamish: Yep.
[00:46:13] Adam: Yep.
[00:46:15] Hamish: Yeah. So what's the process, what's the start of that look like? Of? To, to making WonderBuild your single source of truth. Does it start with- Wonderbuild being set up correctly with the right templates. Does it start with having all your files stored in there? You've gotta be on Wonderbuild to start with.
[00:46:34] Adam: Yeah, you've gotta have a membership.
[00:46:35] Hamish: Yeah.
[00:46:36] Adam: A subscription. Nah, um, it starts with a mindset shift- Yeah ... honestly. That's where it starts. People think it starts with, um, all that other stuff, but it starts with a mindstep- mindset shift of this is gonna be the place where I run my business now.
[00:46:54] Hamish: Yeah.
[00:46:54] Adam: Okay? And I'm gonna keep it inside of it.
[00:46:56] 'Cause as soon as you drift outside of that, that's when the [00:47:00] cracks start to form.
[00:47:01] Hamish: Yeah.
[00:47:01] Adam: And like I always say, team adoption goes down, okay? So once your team starts seeing that you're not treating it as a single source of truth, okay, they're not gonna start treating it as a single source of truth.
[00:47:12] Hamish: Yeah.
[00:47:12] Adam: And then they're not gonna know where to go and look for information, okay? 'Cause you're gonna have, um, stuff scattered everywhere in emails- Mm-hmm ... in, um, spreadsheets, text messages, WhatsApp. Um-
[00:47:23] Hamish: You're literally describing my business.
[00:47:25] Adam: Yeah. So it's not just you. It's why- Yeah ... it's, it's why WonderOps is a business, 'cause so many builders don't get it, and just can't, like, fathom and actually take that concept and-
[00:47:35] Hamish: Yeah
[00:47:36] Adam: adopt it. Yeah.
[00:47:38] Hamish: And how hard do you think it is to, say, go from... Uh, uh, look, I, I, I do joke. I, I think w- our business operates well, but I do- Yeah ... see the advantage of, like, making Wonderbuild the single source of truth. Yeah. How long do you think that whole transition could take? If you had someone that was committed to, to go, "Right, well, I'm gonna make Wonderbuild my absolute source of [00:48:00] truth"-
[00:48:00] Adam: Yeah
[00:48:00] Hamish: I don't think that could happen overnight.
[00:48:03] Adam: No, well, it can. The information could get in there overnight. It's the adoption that won't.
[00:48:07] Hamish: Yeah, okay.
[00:48:08] Adam: Yep, and the training. Yep.
[00:48:09] Hamish: Yep.
[00:48:10] Adam: And that's what I'm big on in WonderOps, and there's a lot of other consultants out there that try to, um, or they, they do it, but the problem is they don't, um...
[00:48:19] You know, they might get all the information in the account, but then it's really educating the builder on how to use it, why to use it. Yeah. Like, context is so important. Yeah. Yeah, well, cool, here's a template dropped into your account. That's all well and good, but why am I using it, you know? It's the why- Yeah, okay
[00:48:35] that you, they need to understand.
[00:48:36] Hamish: Yeah.
[00:48:37] Adam: And, like, and that's, and that's what I try to teach builders. Like, Wonderbuild will teach you how the platform works and where all the buttons are. You know what I mean? There's plenty of people you can go buy templates off, but if you don't understand why you've gotta use it, and how you've gotta use it, and the benefits of if you use it this certain way, then all that other stuff just falls to the wayside.
[00:48:56] Hamish: Yeah, okay.
[00:48:57] Adam: Yep.
[00:48:58] Matt: W- why do you think builders are so [00:49:00] keen to take up on AI? 'Cause I feel like it's one... Maybe we're just surrounded by them.
[00:49:05] Adam: Yeah.
[00:49:05] Matt: But I f- I feel like builders are never-
[00:49:09] Hamish: Why do you
[00:49:09] Matt: think they are? ... shy to adopt things like this.
[00:49:11] Hamish: Or what, or, or, or the opposite. Why, why are they, you know, like the example we were talking about earlier on today, like, why do you think they're not adopting it?
[00:49:18] Adam: AI? Yeah. Or Wonderbuild?
[00:49:19] Hamish: Oh, well.
[00:49:20] Adam: Time. Ah,
[00:49:21] Hamish: well-
[00:49:23] Adam: Yeah.
[00:49:24] Matt: Do other, do other estimating
[00:49:25] Adam: platforms have- Just time, like it's... A lot of the builders I deal with, like I'm not dealing with massive building companies. Like the building companies I'm dealing with are your mum and dads, your small to medium size-
[00:49:36] Matt: Yeah,
[00:49:36] Adam: yeah
[00:49:36] building companies. There's a lot to do in a building company.
[00:49:39] Hamish: Yeah.
[00:49:40] Adam: Like for you to upskill yourself in another field, it takes time.
[00:49:43] Hamish: Yeah.
[00:49:43] Adam: Like I'm saying, like you can adopt AI and just try it out, but, um, a lot of builders just don't have the time to actually look at it. Yeah. Um, and that's why like some of the products that I've come up with with WonderOps now is to try [00:50:00] combat that.
[00:50:00] So, like-
[00:50:01] Matt: Like what, what products? 'Cause I
[00:50:02] Adam: know- Well, the, the lock-in, for example- Yeah ... like the two-day implementation- Yeah ... that I'm running. Yeah. Okay? That's, the reason I did that is 'cause it's two days that the builder can focus on, okay? So instead of spreading it out over two, three months of training where they've got to meet up with you once a week, you know, 'cause motivation ebbs and flows.
[00:50:20] Yeah. You know, they feel really motivated when you first, like I'm gonna get your WonderBuild set up properly. Oh, yeah, how good's that? Next week they've got a concrete pour on that's got pushback and-
[00:50:29] Hamish: Yeah ...
[00:50:29] Adam: you know, they're, they're
[00:50:31] Matt: So what, what happens in that lock-in?
[00:50:32] Hamish: I was about to ask the same thing.
[00:50:35] Are you allowed to give away the secret, secret sauce?
[00:50:36] Adam: No, it's just setting up WonderBuild. Yeah. See- That's what it is. It's, um, it's like a hackathon. Yeah. It's, you're sitting in a room with 10 other builders- In person? ... and you got, um, online. Yeah. But in pers- like online, in person.
[00:50:47] Hamish: I'm gonna have so much ADHD medication-
[00:50:50] Adam: But-
[00:50:50] Hamish: by these two days ...
[00:50:50] Adam: there's me and- I'm not gonna sleep for two days ... me and a couple of other experts in there, and some WonderBuild support staff as well, and, um, we just sit in there and I show you front to back how I run it in [00:51:00] my business and then, um, we set it up as you go. And the cool thing about the MCP server and that now is you can set it up really quickly.
[00:51:08] Hamish: Yeah, okay.
[00:51:08] Adam: Yeah. Um, so you know, we'll, we'll get templates and we'll adapt them to your business 'cause that's, that's the biggest thing, like templates and that are really good, but very rarely are my systems, you know, and templates gonna plug straight into your business. Like I've got heaps of cool workflows and systems and templates in my business, but it doesn't mean they're gonna be perfect for you.
[00:51:30] It's
[00:51:30] Matt: one thing I don't use much in yet. Yeah. That's the one thing that like I've- You don't use what? Like the temp- like as many templates and like the checklists within-
[00:51:38] Adam: Yeah ...
[00:51:38] Matt: WonderBuild.
[00:51:40] Adam: Yeah, 'cause you're not treating it as your single source of truth.
[00:51:42] Matt: Yeah, but I just don't use checklists at all. Like I'm kind of one of those people, like I just, that's...
[00:51:46] But, but I'm going to this, the reason I don't have them yet is I'm going through
[00:51:48] Adam: Systemology. This is, this is another thing. Yeah. This is another thing that I do different to some other guys, is I don't overcomplicate and overblow the system. Yeah. Because if you put too much shit in there it just becomes noise.
[00:51:59] Matt: No,
[00:51:59] Adam: I'm with you. So if, if- So if [00:52:00] someone goes looking for a checklist that they actually need but they've got to cycle through 500 useless ones that they're never gonna use-
[00:52:05] Matt: Like a
[00:52:06] Adam: side, like a set out of- ... then they're, they're just gonna give up. They're just gonna give up. So, so- Like a set out of
[00:52:10] Hamish: heaps
[00:52:10] if I, okay, so I, I'm only asking this question 'cause I'm doing the sit in for a couple of days, and so is Matt. So I've obviously got some templates set up in my WonderBuild and I've got some, uh- estimations and I've got jobs- Yeah ... I've got current jobs. What does that look like for when you bring in this new way of doing things?
[00:52:29] Like these new, like if you're saying we're gonna set it up properly-
[00:52:32] Adam: Yeah ...
[00:52:32] Hamish: um, does it like Does all these past estimations and, and current jobs fall into the new way of doing things? Or there, or is there a li-
[00:52:43] Adam: Well, the past ones probably don't-
[00:52:44] Hamish: Well, so- ... because they're in the past ... so the estimations and the current jobs-
[00:52:48] Adam: Yeah
[00:52:48] Hamish: are they then, like, uh, being reformatted into the new way of doing things? Or is there a line in the sand of we need to wait for that job that you've just started that's 12 months-
[00:52:57] Adam: I would say, um- [00:53:00]
[00:53:01] Hamish: Do you
[00:53:01] Adam: understand- I would say, yeah, yeah. There's a- Are you saying, like,
[00:53:03] Matt: do you need to wait for the new project to
[00:53:04] Adam: come in and start?
[00:53:06] No, and this is the, this is the pushback I get all the time of, "We're in the middle of a job. Um- Yeah ... we've just got to wait for it to finish." And I always say, "We're always going to be in the middle of a job."
[00:53:13] Hamish: Mm.
[00:53:14] Adam: Do you know what I mean? And mostly, mostly what that is, so say if you're in the middle of a job with estimation, it's mainly just data that you're scared of losing and cleaning up.
[00:53:23] I'm probably- But the power of AI now is it's gonna clean up and reorganize that data really easily for you. I'm less
[00:53:28] Hamish: concerned about the ones in estimation. Yep. I'm probably more concerned about the ones that are live on site that I've already got some, um, back costing to.
[00:53:35] Adam: Yep. Yeah,
[00:53:36] Hamish: so-
[00:53:37] Adam: So
[00:53:37] Hamish: does, do you just let them run out?
[00:53:39] Adam: Well, what's back costing?
[00:53:41] Hamish: I don't know. I'm just using the term because I've heard you use it before. Yeah,
[00:53:43] Adam: but, like, what is it? You're
[00:53:44] Hamish: going back to the kid
[00:53:44] Adam: old coffee. Yeah, but like what is it in a nutshell?
[00:53:47] Matt: Data.
[00:53:47] Adam: Data. Yeah, okay. What's AI really good at reorganizing and
[00:53:50] Hamish: shuffling? Data. Okay, so, okay, no, you've probably just answered my question.
[00:53:53] Yeah. So if we, if we have this two-day sit in and we're then implementing a new way of [00:54:00] using, utilizing WonderBuilder- Yeah ... or utilizing it much more efficiently, what you're saying is these jobs that are under construction right now can be reformatted- Yep ... to how we're gonna be running every job.
[00:54:08] Matt: 100%.
[00:54:09] Hamish: Great. Well, that's what I wanted to know.
[00:54:10] Matt: Worst case, you just duplicate your old file. You can always go back if you need to. Exactly.
[00:54:13] Hamish: Yeah.
[00:54:14] Adam: But the problem is most builders probably don't have... Do you know what I mean? They can't reorganize it because it's not there in the first place. Like, they're not back costing.
[00:54:22] The reality is most builders aren't back costing. Do you know what I mean?
[00:54:25] Matt: Yeah. Well, I mean,
[00:54:25] Adam: I was a, I was a builder- It's just, it's just costings. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:54:27] Matt: So I've only just started doing it within the last year.
[00:54:29] Adam: Yeah, but, like, and that's the thing, like, um,
[00:54:32] Matt: yeah. It's always been hard, but AI's made it easy.
[00:54:35] Adam: Yeah, that's right.
[00:54:36] Matt: But- Like, that's the thing. I think that's the-
[00:54:37] Adam: And that, and that's the thing that, like, what I'm trying to do and teach builders, I'm not there to blow up your whole way of doing it. I'm there to show you how I run it, the better way of doing it, the new answers to the programs, because I use the program the way that WonderBuilder didn't even design it to be used in some ways.
[00:54:53] And builders don't even know you can use it like that. Okay. But I only know that from, because I run a building company myself- Yeah ... and I've worked it out by [00:55:00] playing with it, and I'm a tinkerer. But, um, the idea is I'm showing youse how to do that. So it's not in there to go, "This is how you got to estimate, blow up your systems."
[00:55:08] Yeah. I'm gonna show you really good ways of doing it. Yeah. And then what we're gonna do is in those two days lock in is you understand how it is. Here's my template. Um, this is why I use this template. Um, now you understand that, do you want to somehow adopt and mold that into it? And you can- might be able to adapt the best bits of it.
[00:55:25] Hamish: Yep.
[00:55:26] Matt: Yep.
[00:55:27] Hamish: I'm, I'm excited about
[00:55:27] Matt: it. But do you have to be at a certain stage before you do that? Like, do you feel like, is it a crawl before you walk thing or just go run?
[00:55:35] Adam: Oh, I think at some point you just gotta-
[00:55:38] Matt: Rip the Band-Aid off ...
[00:55:38] Adam: yeah, rip the Band-Aid off.
[00:55:39] Matt: Yeah.
[00:55:40] Adam: Like I say. Start running.
[00:55:41] Matt: Tip
[00:55:41] Adam: it all in.
[00:55:41] Start running.
[00:55:42] Matt: Yeah.
[00:55:42] Adam: Yeah. Um, yeah, I mean, I suggest people, yeah, like Wonderbuild fundamentally looks like a complex system, but once you start using it, it's the same through all the areas. Um, yeah, I think it's, it's pretty user-friendly, I [00:56:00] believe, and it's pretty easy to teach. Like, I've got a guy, I've got a client in Melbourne now, Brad, and he's awesome, and he was super nervous.
[00:56:05] Like, he's just new to the program and didn't understand it at all, and like it's been a bit slower with him working through it, but he's like, he says now, like, "It just makes sense." Like, "I understand it, the way you explained it, um, you know, the way the, the areas you showed me how to use it, the way you taught it to me so I'm not unlocking it all at once for him."
[00:56:26] Matt: Yep.
[00:56:26] Adam: Like, um-
[00:56:27] Matt: I think that's sometimes the problems. There's always a new shiny carrot or that's dangled in front of you.
[00:56:32] Adam: Yeah, that's right.
[00:56:33] Matt: And, but you haven't first resolved the first problem, then there's something else new, and then you're always three to four- Yeah ... ahead before you fix problem
[00:56:41] Adam: A. Yeah, well, that's why, and the way I teach the system is like we go, we start in the settings and then we move through like leads, tasks, and all that 'cause they're all the foundations and fundamentals that- Yeah
[00:56:52] you set up, and all that flows through estimates and jobs and all that. Yeah. There's no use going and setting up your jobs if your estimates are dog shit.
[00:56:57] Hamish: Yeah.
[00:56:58] Adam: You know what I mean? 'Cause it just flows back [00:57:00] through- Yeah ... um, that way. So it's the way you set the system up and the way you gotta understand it is, um, you know, methodical.
[00:57:08] Hamish: Yep.
[00:57:09] Adam: Yeah.
[00:57:10] Hamish: So other than these two-day settings, like Wonderops, you still do individual like, um- Tutorials ... tutorials and, and stuff like that?
[00:57:18] Adam: Um, yeah. So I'm more so just moving those two-day lock-ins now. So- Yeah ... um, my one-on-one working with people, I'm still doing a few at the moment, but what, for my reasons that I said before
[00:57:31] Hamish: is- Pe- people's motivation level
[00:57:33] Adam: people's motivation. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? If they could just go, "Right, I'm blocking out two days and I'm gonna spend two days focusing on this, and at the end of the two days, I'm gonna have me Wonderbuild set up and an understanding of it."
[00:57:43] Hamish: Yeah.
[00:57:43] Adam: Doesn't mean you still can't learn after that.
[00:57:45] Hamish: Yeah.
[00:57:45] Adam: Like, you can still keep learning, but if you can spend those two days to focus on setting it up properly, learning it, then you can go back to pouring your slabs and concentrating on your other stuff and, you know, it can be a, um-
[00:57:58] Hamish: You think it's gonna free up time? [00:58:00]
[00:58:00] Adam: Well, it's, yeah, it's gonna free up time.
[00:58:01] Whereas the, the other way where you're doing one, um, one-hour sessions with me over 12 weeks or whatever it is, and we're dropping stuff in and you've gotta go and play with it and adapt it with it, Matt. Like, like I said, you get one week you're feeling super motivated, we might be in the estimation section.
[00:58:17] You're like, "Oh, yeah, I'm gonna fix all me estimates" and then, you know- Uh, the kids get sick and you gotta miss- Yeah ... the session next week . Yeah.
[00:58:24] Matt: But, but that's the
[00:58:24] Adam: one
[00:58:24] Matt: thing I learned- You can't control the flu ... was, like, I got my estimations right first. I, I got my set out in that right first.
[00:58:30] Adam: Yeah. Well, the costings of the- Yeah
[00:58:31] and, like, Tom-
[00:58:32] Matt: It's like the foundations, the whole
[00:58:33] Adam: Big, Big Tommy from, um, V2A, who's obviously a good mate of mine, and works with me to train builders with a lot of this stuff. Um, like we talk about the costings being the heartbeat of everything. So, like it drives so much of the system. If you set up that estimation in the costing section correctly, and you understand how it all flows through and how i- information can move, so without having to re-type stuff, um, through the system.
[00:58:59] And, [00:59:00] like, once you understand that and set it up properly, the project management becomes m- a lot easier. Um, the communication to the contractors becomes a lot easier, um, communication to your team, because the costings are, um, all the information's there. It almost becomes more beneficial than your building contract.
[00:59:20] Hamish: Yeah, right.
[00:59:21] Adam: So, like I tell my team now, like, "You'll find more information in the costings than you will in the building contract without-" As long as
[00:59:26] Matt: it all matches.
[00:59:27] Adam: B- it does, but, like, what I'm saying is Like-
[00:59:31] Matt: Yeah ...
[00:59:32] Adam: that's because the costing section is so well, um, laid out, and all the information's there with a heap of notes, um, heap of information on the selections.
[00:59:42] Um, everything PC, PS marked.
[00:59:45] Hamish: Yep.
[00:59:45] Adam: Um, all the quantities order ready. Do you know what I mean? So, like I'm big on making the estimates order ready. Okay? So not using like big lump sums of stuff where it's just a bundle of, bundled amount of number or a big [01:00:00] square meter rate where your project managers on site have to, after you've estimated it, then go re-work out everything- Yeah
[01:00:06] that they have to order. Do you know what I mean? That's not efficient.
[01:00:08] Matt: Yep. That's right.
[01:00:09] Adam: Is it? That's
[01:00:09] Matt: one thing I'm trying to work on right now. Um,
[01:00:12] Hamish: it's hard with frames and stuff 'cause there's so much quantities I like, but- Yeah, but I mean, I think this is where something like V2E comes
[01:00:17] Adam: into it. Yeah.
[01:00:17] That's right. And that's why, that's why I'm a massive fan of V2E and why I use them heavily in me business. And it's because I, like I was using Pluspec, the program that they use, but they've like supercharged it. Like I could never get it to do what they've got it to do. Yeah. But I've seen the power of what that program can do- Yeah
[01:00:36] um, for quantities and bill of quantities-
[01:00:38] Matt: Yeah ...
[01:00:39] Adam: that it just makes sense. But yeah, you want to be getting, um... And I always explain this to my clients in the pre-construction, and this is why they pay me, 'cause I'm spending so much time getting all this, um, well, not as much now with AI, but spending so much time getting the costing section so dialled in and all that information there, so when they get to [01:01:00] site it's so much more efficient, 'cause I've spent all the time in the front end setting it all up.
[01:01:05] Hamish: Yeah.
[01:01:05] Adam: Does that make sense?
[01:01:06] Matt: It already makes it like, and if you're like a client or architect scared of this stuff with the builder using it, it's only gonna help the project. Mm. Like I think that's the, um, the thing that we need to understand, like at the end of the day, it helps us build better, be more organized.
[01:01:19] There's less bad conversations, especially around cost because hopefully we've been able to check over everything and not- Yeah ... there's, there's, there's... How many line items would actually go into a build? Thousands.
[01:01:29] Adam: Oh.
[01:01:30] Matt: Thousands and thousands and thousands. Mm. So many. And, and so statistically you're gonna miss one or two.
[01:01:35] Adam: Yeah.
[01:01:35] Matt: 100%. And, and even probably AI is still probably gonna miss one or two anyway, but it's just a lot less- Yeah ... or potentially reduce the big risk factors.
[01:01:41] Hamish: And I'm gonna ask one more question before we start to wrap up. You're still getting all your trade quotes as well?
[01:01:46] Adam: Yep.
[01:01:46] Hamish: Yep. Yeah. So you're doing the V2E takeoff- Yep
[01:01:49] and you're using, I don't... It sounds like you're using it very similar to me, just for your bill of quantities for-
[01:01:54] Adam: Yep ...
[01:01:54] Hamish: stuff.
[01:01:55] Adam: Yep. Correct.
[01:01:56] Hamish: But then you're getting plaster quote, you're getting electrical quote, you're getting... Yeah. To assist.
[01:01:59] Adam: But it's [01:02:00] assisting them. So my plasterer, because I've got the bill of quantities-
[01:02:03] Hamish: Yeah
[01:02:03] Adam: you know, it's, it's given them the information so they can quote quicker.
[01:02:07] Hamish: Yeah.
[01:02:08] Adam: Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Totally. You know, and I've got their rates, and it doesn't... The rates are there so I can get out stuff like budget estimates and- Yeah ... load a lot quicker. Totally.
[01:02:17] Hamish: Yep, yep.
[01:02:17] Adam: But I still, they've still got the opportunity to quote it.
[01:02:21] Yep. The d- more difficult ones are probably like your plumbing, electrical service trades and that.
[01:02:24] Hamish: Yep.
[01:02:25] Adam: But definitely- Join-
[01:02:25] Hamish: joinery as well ...
[01:02:26] Adam: joinery obviously. Yeah But anything that's like tiling, bricklaying- Yeah ... plastering, painting, stuff like that, um, you know, if you get, hold your rates inside Wonderbuild and still give them the opportunity to quote.
[01:02:38] Yeah. You know, I find I get quotes back quicker when the information I give them is better.
[01:02:42] Hamish: Or, or here's, here's my takeoff. Does this make sense?
[01:02:45] Adam: Yeah, that's
[01:02:45] Hamish: right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yes. Can you sense check this number for me? Yeah.
[01:02:48] Adam: Yeah. Yep. Um, yeah.
[01:02:51] Hamish: Oh, one, one last question before we wrap up. Sorry.
[01:02:54] Adam: No.
[01:02:54] What's AI?
[01:02:56] Hamish: Um, at the moment in my [01:03:00] business- Yep ... it's usually taking me four to five weeks from the moment I get a set of drawings, to the moment where I'm sitting in front of a client.
[01:03:06] Adam: Mm-hmm.
[01:03:07] Hamish: And, and I, you know, it's a pretty exhaustive kind of, um, timeframe-
[01:03:12] Adam: Yep ...
[01:03:12] Hamish: I know. But two weeks of that is sitting there waiting for a V20 model.
[01:03:16] Adam: Yep.
[01:03:17] Hamish: Two weeks of that is giving the, the trades- Yeah ... uh, a quote. I'm usually spending four to five days beforehand reviewing the documents and getting all the scopes of work set up. Yeah. And then I've got a week at the end of it putting it all together.
[01:03:28] Adam: Yeah.
[01:03:29] Hamish: Is that in, with all the things that you've implemented in your business, are you finding that that's a, a similar timeframe?
[01:03:36] Adam: Yeah, mine, some of mine are longer. Yeah, some of mine are six. But the problem is, like, it's, you're relying on so much, and this is a good thing for clients to understand, to gather a good estimate, to gather an attender for them, like, it's more than just you sitting down and punching numbers.
[01:03:52] Matt: Yep.
[01:03:52] Adam: Like, there's so much- You could do that
[01:03:53] Matt: in a day if you wanted to.
[01:03:54] Adam: Yeah, but that, that's, that's exactly, oh, I could punch a quote out in f- Five hours if you- ... five hours ... yeah But you're rely- [01:04:00] w- you know, relying on so many other things, like trades getting their price back. Even clients making selections.
[01:04:04] Hamish: Yeah.
[01:04:05] Adam: Like, sometimes they're the hindrance on their own.
[01:04:06] Hamish: Well, it's more- You know what I mean?
[01:04:08] like, we're not making, we're not sending out for quotes until all the documents. Like, I- I'm- Well, that's- ... I'm saying the time starts ticking when I've- Trade, trades the barrier ... when I've got, when I've got documents.
[01:04:16] Adam: Yeah, when you've got all the documents. When
[01:04:17] Hamish: I've got the documents,
[01:04:17] Adam: yeah. Yeah, I think five weeks.
[01:04:19] Like, I'm not punching them out in a week if that's what you're asking.
[01:04:21] Hamish: Yeah. Well, I
[01:04:22] Adam: mean, there- There's still, there's still a process
[01:04:23] Hamish: that it has
[01:04:23] Adam: to follow ...
[01:04:24] Hamish: there, there, there, there was a part of me that's like, "Oh, has Adam got some bloody magic plugin or recipe that's gonna make it quicker?"
[01:04:28] Adam: No. Because- But that's why, like, and I know we're diverging here, but, like, having a really good structured pre-construction process.
[01:04:35] So, like, in my pre-construction process, I've got the feasibility estimate, the budget estimate, and the contract estimate.
[01:04:41] Hamish: Yeah.
[01:04:41] Adam: Okay? And the feasibility estimate is the ballpark estimate. Yeah. Similar to what you guys do.
[01:04:45] Hamish: Yeah.
[01:04:46] Adam: The budget estimate is an estimate where I'm doing takeoffs- Yep ... using quantities, but I'm not going to trades.
[01:04:52] Hamish: But unresolved plans.
[01:04:54] Adam: Unresolved plans. So you don't go to
[01:04:55] Matt: trades at all at that point?
[01:04:56] Adam: Well, there's no point, 'cause they probably haven't got the information to give you an accurate quote [01:05:00] anyway. Well, s- sorry, there's not no point. Yeah. But if you're using tools and you've got good data from past builds, okay?
[01:05:06] And it's all about the language you use. You're explaining to the client, "This isn't a contract estimate. This is a budget estimate, so we're doing takeoffs, we're doing counts, we're using costings," okay? "But I'm not gonna go get a full-blown quote off my plumber because the reports aren't there, the selections aren't done."
[01:05:23] Yeah. "So they're not gonna be accurate anyway, but- Good
[01:05:25] Matt: point ...
[01:05:26] Adam: I've got enough information here that I can do a budget estimate." Yeah. So that's what a budget estimate is, okay? So once you get that to them, okay, then the pressure, the, the pressure to a degree is off till you get the contract estimate, 'cause they've already seen two rounds of pricing.
[01:05:41] Mm. Could have been five rounds of pricing. But, um, yeah, so you're just telling them that you're, the next price you're gonna see is a contract estimate, and you're not gonna get a contract estimate until I've gathered all the information and all the prices to give you an accurate one.
[01:05:57] Hamish: Yep. It, it's almost identical to what we do.
[01:05:59] [01:06:00] Yeah, almost. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think the only difference is that we will go to trades in that middle section. Yeah, same here. You can go... Yeah, I'm not saying you can't
[01:06:08] Adam: go to them.
[01:06:09] Hamish: To, yeah, for certain- For
[01:06:10] Matt: certain things you can probably make some assumptions. Yeah. Like a plasterer, you probably don't need to get him doing-
[01:06:14] Hamish: But, but what, but what I do in, in that, um, in that middle section, I know we've talked about this in, in another pre-construction, um, episode I'm, you know, in my presentation view in- Yeah
[01:06:25] in Wonderbuild, the, the document that I present to the client, everything's an allowance.
[01:06:29] Adam: Yeah.
[01:06:30] Hamish: Like, every number that I'm showing them, I, I'm like, "See that big A there?" That's an allowance- Yeah ... because we don't have resolved documentation. Exactly,
[01:06:36] Adam: and it has to be.
[01:06:37] Hamish: There's no provisional sum, there's no prime cost items because every single thing in here is an allowance right now- Yeah
[01:06:42] 'cause the plans are unresolved.
[01:06:43] Adam: Yeah,
[01:06:43] Hamish: that's right. They'll, they'll become provisional sums and prime cost when we go to contract- Mm ... when there's things that we can't resolve at that point. Yeah. But everything at that middle point is... Like, I say that the, the, the, the, the range gets smaller as the documents get more tighter.
[01:06:59] Yeah,
[01:06:59] Matt: that's right.
[01:06:59] Hamish: [01:07:00] So, you know, the range at the beginning is feasibility. Yeah. There's a, there's a real range there. Yeah. The next one, we can give you an actual number-
[01:07:06] Matt: Mm ...
[01:07:06] Hamish: but expect it to go up or down because- Yeah, that's it ... the drawings aren't resolved. Exactly. The next quote, that's a number. Yeah. We can, we could arguably go to contract on it if it feels right.
[01:07:15] Matt: You could go to contract- And that, and that's- ... on the middle one if they kept everything within the budget.
[01:07:19] Hamish: Well, you could go to contract on the middle one if you wanted to go cost plus.
[01:07:22] Adam: Yeah, well, that's, that's another-
[01:07:24] Hamish: Yeah ...
[01:07:24] Adam: that's a discussion for another day, but-
[01:07:26] Hamish: Yeah ...
[01:07:26] Adam: it's all, it's all in how you explain it to the client, like, this is where, that's where most builders fall down.
[01:07:31] They're probably not explaining it properly-
[01:07:33] Hamish: Mm ...
[01:07:33] Adam: to them. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? And what an actual budget estimate is.
[01:07:37] Hamish: Yeah.
[01:07:37] Adam: You know, what a feasibility estimate is. Um, you know, if it's, if it, if it's very clearly outlined to them, you know, there's no, there's no mistake about it. Yeah.
[01:07:47] Hamish: And I guess just to sort of, you know, wrap a big bow around this conversation today, you're utilizing and inputting AI to help you through this process- Correct, yeah
[01:07:57] to free you up with time.
[01:07:58] Adam: Yeah,
[01:07:58] Hamish: 100%. In summary, that's all you're doing.
[01:07:59] Adam: [01:08:00] 100%. Yeah. Between, um, AI and my virtual assistants, like, I've got a project, and I was telling you this before off-air, that I've got a project that's in contract estimate stage now. It's been modeled, all selections are done, um, all of our quantities are done, costings, all me labor's done.
[01:08:16] It's just going to, um, trades at the moment, and it's gone from feasibility all the way to contract, and I've barely done a thing for it except- Yeah ... just, um, put on a smile for the client, answer any questions. But literally, like- Yeah.
[01:08:29] Hamish: Actually, this is interesting, 'cause w- we're very similar in the structure.
[01:08:32] Yeah. So I've got Robert doing ours. Do you still do the labor side of it, or is he-
[01:08:38] Adam: Well, this is ... I love talking about this because you'll talk to every builder, a lot of builders are like, "No, you have to do your own labor. You have to do your own labor." I actually removed myself from doing my own labor because I was, um, sabotaging myself.
[01:08:53] Yeah, 'cause you're like- If that makes sense. Because I've got so much data there now, like, it's easy for my VAs to do the [01:09:00] labor because they're got every hour that me guys have spent, you know, framing, concrete, and site labor, fit out. There's so much information there that they're better off doing it.
[01:09:10] 'Cause what was happening when I was doing me labor is I was looking to go, "That, that'll only take three days."
[01:09:14] Hamish: Yeah.
[01:09:15] Adam: Do you know what I mean?
[01:09:16] Hamish: Yeah.
[01:09:16] Adam: Whereas data's data. So, you know, if the last 300 square meter- acreage home that I built that's got three-meter-high walls, um, two raked gables in it or whatever says that it's gonna take 150 hours or 200 hours, okay?
[01:09:33] And the next house I'm building's 305 square meters, probably better off letting the VA look at that past data, seeing who was on site and how many apprentices I had. You know, and not even a VA, this is where AI-
[01:09:45] Hamish: Yeah ...
[01:09:45] Adam: you could be going, "Hey, look at this past job," or, "Go into my Wonderbuild, I want you to find all the jobs that are around the same square meterage of this house that we're gonna quote.
[01:09:54] Um, check the wall frame height, check the wall frame lineal meter, check how many windows are in it. Just [01:10:00] get them comparable, give me all the variables that it could be. Tell me what I spent on it, and then come back and tell me what the hours should be."
[01:10:06] Hamish: Yep.
[01:10:07] Adam: Like, AI is perfect for that
[01:10:08] Hamish: job. And, and one thing to clarify, um, uh, when you're talking just now is it's not going back off your last costing.
[01:10:17] No. It's actually going back off the data that you've inputted for the job. Correct.
[01:10:20] Matt: Yeah, make sure it's profitable, 'cause there's no point running it against a job where you lost the- No, that's right. Yeah ... the, uh, the, your 300 hours on your carpentry counts. Yeah,
[01:10:26] Adam: that's what I mean. So, like, and that's what was happening.
[01:10:28] Like, I was estimating labor and, 'cause I think I'm the world's best chippy you know what I mean? And you're looking at jobs and, yeah, I've actually removed myself from that situation from estimating because Everyone else that's doing the estimating my business is actually looking at it from the facts- Yeah, interesting
[01:10:47] and what it is. Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah. Whereas I'm always like, "Oh no, I'll trim me margin there," or, "It won't cost that much" or whatever. So by actually removing myself from there, me business is a lot better off now.
[01:10:57] Hamish: Yeah.
[01:10:57] Adam: More profitable. So it's interesting, but [01:11:00] like a lot of builders will say, "Nup, you know, we're the only ones that can do estimating.
[01:11:04] Um, we're the only ones that can look at da- um, do labor hours and that," whereas I've sort of flipped the lid on it.
[01:11:09] Hamish: Do you know what? Do, uh, like I used to think like that, and do you know the only reason why I do it? What's that? Is it gives me a really good opportunity to- Yep ... to dive into the plans.
[01:11:19] Adam: Yep.
[01:11:20] Hamish: Because I'll then... And then I'll get my team to sense check it, and we'll usually have like a review, "Hey, I've got this for this, this for this, this for this. Do you think that's enough?"
[01:11:28] Adam: Yeah. I'll still look at the plans, like an a- 3D model and-
[01:11:31] Hamish: Yeah ...
[01:11:32] Adam: all that.
[01:11:32] Hamish: But I think for me, like- Yeah ... actually going through that methodical process of, you know- Yeah
[01:11:36] 'cause we use a FutureBuilder spreadsheet. Yeah. Like there's a real process that I go through. Yep. All right, I'm gonna start here and then, oh, and I, I'm ending up all the way here, and on that journey, I'm going through the engineering, I'm going through the architecturals.
[01:11:48] Adam: There is a caveat to that, I will say too.
[01:11:49] Like a lot of the houses that I build are acreage homes. They're probably not, um, the, you know, they're architectural and they're nice. They're not two-story terraces in the middle of Fitzroy where- Yeah. Yeah ... there's complex [01:12:00] stuff like that. So it's- I look, I look, I- ... it's horses for courses ... I
[01:12:02] Hamish: look at your sites and I'm like, "A fucking dream."
[01:12:04] Adam: No.
[01:12:04] Hamish: I'm like- They're good ... you can put 20 containers around here and still have room.
[01:12:08] Adam: Yeah. I'm not trying to tell you how to suck eggs and like- Yeah ... every business and every building company is different, but that really works well for me. Yeah. But there's definitely areas that every builder, you know, of their estimate or building could adopt that philosophy- Yeah
[01:12:21] I reckon that I just said-
[01:12:22] Hamish: Yeah, I agree ... in some
[01:12:22] Adam: way.
[01:12:23] Hamish: I agree. But do you know what? Do you know what? The, the, I think the, the, the thing to go back to though, you talk about your construction, preconstruction workflow, I talk about my preconstruction workflow. All the steps still need to be done
[01:12:36] Adam: That's right
[01:12:36] Hamish: You then have a...
[01:12:37] You now then have a choice of which steps you actually wanna do- Yeah, that's right ... or you wanna... So the process is exactly the same. Mm. But I choose, in my business, to jump into that labor estimating- Yeah ... whereas you don't.
[01:12:47] Adam: Yeah, that's right. I'll still jump in, I'll just review it.
[01:12:50] Hamish: But do you know what I mean?
[01:12:50] Yeah. I, I guess the point I was making is- Yeah ... the, the process is still the same. Yeah, that's right. You just have an opportunity to jump in or jump out.
[01:12:55] Adam: Yeah.
[01:12:56] Hamish: Yeah.
[01:12:56] Adam: And that's, having an awesome laid out pre-construction [01:13:00] process with steps there means you can bring clients in at different stages too. Yeah.
[01:13:04] Does that make sense? Yeah. So, like, most of my clients I work with now working through design, like, very rarely do they come to me with resolved plans. Yeah. Like, they usually come to me first. But if people do come to me with resolved plans, you know, I'm just going, "Righto, we'll just go skip these first six steps, slip you into the budget estimate."
[01:13:22] Hamish: Yeah.
[01:13:22] Adam: Okay? And then you're just starting from this point. You're still gonna go through your consultant selections and everything.
[01:13:27] Hamish: Do you know what? I still want to do a feasibility, you know, like, even before I waste
[01:13:33] Matt: my- I just don't wanna waste my, just don't wanna
[01:13:33] Adam: waste my time.
[01:13:34] Hamish: Yeah.
[01:13:34] Adam: Yeah. I, I'm saying, yeah, you can do a feasibility.
[01:13:36] Sorry, but what I do, um- But
[01:13:38] Hamish: I, I get... I hear what you're saying, though. Yeah. Like, and, and then, yeah, you can just go, "Oh, well, that's at this stage, so I can-" Yeah ... "I can insert you here."
[01:13:43] Adam: Yeah. Yeah. Start it there. Yeah. And that's really good, like, the, the document that I got that I give clients, it's very visual, it shows all the steps.
[01:13:50] Like, we're here today, first meeting for you to get a contract, these are all the steps that we need to go through-
[01:13:55] Hamish: Yeah ...
[01:13:55] Adam: to get there, and then it's, they can always revert back to it and see where they are in the [01:14:00] timeline.
[01:14:00] Hamish: Yeah.
[01:14:00] Adam: Does that make sense? And then with those clear laid out steps, you can have all your checklists and stop gates that you need, um, to get through each stage as well.
[01:14:10] Hamish: So how are people gonna get in contact with you? 'Cause I know that, like, what you're doing is, you know-
[01:14:17] Matt: Ask A- ask AI to do it ... ask AI.
[01:14:18] Hamish: Yeah, all right. Gemini, how do I
[01:14:20] Matt: get in contact? So Wonder Ops... Let's just break it down, construction company, if someone wants to build with you.
[01:14:24] Adam: So if someone wants to build with me, it's Veo Building.
[01:14:26] Hamish: Veo?
[01:14:27] Adam: Yeah.
[01:14:27] Matt: V- That's- ... V-E-O?
[01:14:28] Adam: V-E-
[01:14:29] Hamish: Vinnie and-
[01:14:30] Adam: Leo ...
[01:14:30] Hamish: Leo.
[01:14:31] Adam: V-E-O Building- Yep ... Co.
[01:14:33] Hamish: Yep.
[01:14:33] Adam: Most people, it's just Veo Building. Um, and then anyone that's on Wonder Build and wants to explore more about, you know, how AI can unlock Wonder Build, or they need help setting up, um, their Wonder Build, if you go to my website, um, wonderops.com.au Go on there, you can just inquire, book in a call.
[01:14:57] Hamish: Yeah.
[01:14:57] Adam: Speak to me, either me, Andy, or Joel. [01:15:00]
[01:15:00] Hamish: Now are we, are we really speaking to you or are we speaking to a- ... are we speaking to an agent?
[01:15:04] Adam: No, you'll probably speak to Joel, who's, um, who's awesome. He's, um-
[01:15:07] Hamish: Yeah, and do you know what? You're gonna get text messages every now and then that says, "Hey, legend." "
[01:15:11] Adam: Hey, legend."
[01:15:11] Yeah. That's him. No, but he's awesome. Um, yeah, you'll probably talk to him, and then he'll be able to explain a bit more. But you can still get a hold of me, flick me a DM on Instagram. Yeah. So it's @me, anthonyops. Yeah. Yeah.
[01:15:23] Hamish: Yeah, and you're doing, um, pretty frequent webinars as well.
[01:15:28] Adam: Yeah.
[01:15:28] Hamish: Um-
[01:15:28] Matt: Look, if you haven't heard of Anthony and you're, you're on Wonder...
[01:15:31] Uh, Adam. Fuck. Adam. Sorry, Adam. Adam. And you're on, uh, Wonder- you're on Instagram, and you haven't heard of him, you probably live under a rock.
[01:15:38] Hamish: Yeah,
[01:15:38] Adam: yeah. But I'm pretty... I'm heavy in the Future Builder community too, obviously. Yeah. I run an, um, the Way to Build masterminds every second week with, um, Josh and Jesse also.
[01:15:46] Yeah. Who work for Luke inside of there, and people could also do one-on-ones with me inside, um, Future Builder as well for- Yeah ... Future Builder members.
[01:15:54] Hamish: Mate, thanks for flying down. Yeah. Really informative, and I'm, I know personally I'm pumped to do the, do the [01:16:00] lock-in.
[01:16:00] Adam: Well, hopefully I don't disappoint, but I'm pumped to have you as well.
[01:16:02] I'm excited. Cheers, man. Done.
[01:16:04] Awesome.