“I had no idea about business.”
Adam Antony says it and it’s the kind of thing you say when you’ve learned a lot of hard lessons. You can be a great carpenter, run a tight site, and still be making decisions that quietly wreck your margins because you don’t yet understand how the business actually works.
Adam’s story starts in Goulburn, New South Wales, and it’s not a straight line. He came through carpentry in a proper start-to-finish environment, where you learn the sequence of a build because you’re responsible for it all. That mindset becomes the thread in this episode. He treats business the same way he treats building. There’s an order. There’s a flow. If you do it out of order, you pay for it later.
After his apprenticeship, he took a left turn into real estate, spending a year door-knocking and cold-calling as a prospector. He realised that the more prospecting he did, the more it was the kind of work that teaches you how to talk to people and how to hear “no” without taking it personally. Then he came back to building, got licensed in his late twenties, and stepped into a partnership that gave him his first big opportunity: a townhouse development. They delivered a solid product, but Adam is blunt about the business side. Labour priced too lean. Margin basically missing. Materials were handled in a way that felt safe, until you realise how easily it could’ve ended differently.
He started to understand the importance of proper systems in his business and started implementing them wherever he could. Adam talks about rebuilding the business properly, setting standards, and creating structure so the work doesn’t rely on memory or constant supervision. He’s now running Veo Building Co in what he calls a sweet spot, with a small team, clear expectations, and support that works because the business is set up for it. The VA line lands in that context. If you bring support into chaos, you don’t get relief. You get more admin.
And just when they’re about to get into the “AI lord” part of the title, they cut it. Hamish tees up the question everyone’s waiting for, how Adam went from country-town building and hard lessons to becoming the guy people look at for systems and AI, and they push it to part two. This episode is the backstory. The mistakes, the reset, and the structure that makes the next chapter make sense.
LINKS:
Pro Clima - https://mindful-builder.captivate.fm/proclima
MEGT - https://mindful-builder.captivate.fm/megt
Biz Tech Guru: https://www.biztechguru.com.au/
Connect with us on Instagram:@themindfulbuilderpod
Website: www.yoursanctum.com.au/
Connect with Matt:
Instagram: @carlandconstructions
Website: www.carlandconstructions.com/
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[00:00:00] Hamish: So we've, like, probably got one of the most famous people in the room today
[00:00:03] Matt: From Grand Designs, if you didn't know, guys.
[00:00:06] Hamish: It... Was your house on Grand Designs.
[00:00:07] Matt: I know.
[00:00:09] Hamish: Did you know that I'm on a podcast?
[00:00:10] Matt: Yeah. You're on Grand Designs too.
[00:00:12] Hamish: Yeah, actually, I tell
[00:00:13] Matt: you- It's my fa- my favorite comeback to you
[00:00:15] Hamish: every single time
[00:00:16] do you want to hear a funny story? I was, um, so my kids go to, uh, primary school near where I live, and, um-
[00:00:21] Matt: Wait, your kids go to school?
[00:00:22] Hamish: My kids, one of my kids go to school, yep. And, uh, I was at a Father's Day thing last Friday, and a lady's like, "I saw you on Grand Designs the other day." I'm like, "Oh yeah, that's right, I was a...
[00:00:34] having a cameo. Uh, I was the podcast guy- ... at the start of Mat- Matthew Carlton's
[00:00:38] Matt: house." But my... But your face is plastered everywhere on the internet anyway.
[00:00:40] Hamish: It's, it's, it's out there.
[00:00:41] Matt: So I don't know. What, is it, is it, is that, like, an insult when people say that? Or it's like, is, is my other marketing not working?
[00:00:46] Adam: Well, it was almost like, "Oh, I saw you on Grand Designs. It wasn't your house. It was someone else's."
[00:00:50] Matt: Yeah, why isn't your house
[00:00:51] Hamish: on it? Why isn't your house on Grand Designs? Uh, today we are joined by Adam Anthony, Anthony or Anthony? Antony. Antony. Interesting story behind Anthony. [00:01:00]
[00:01:00] Adam: I fucking
[00:01:01] Hamish: thought you were gonna go Anthony.
[00:01:03] Do you know that he kept calling me Anthony? Yeah. I'm like, "It's not fucking Anthony, it's Adam."
[00:01:05] Adam: No, it's Antony. So my, my, um, my grandparents are actually Greek, and
[00:01:11] Hamish: they come over, well, Greek Cypriot, and- Are you Greek?
[00:01:12] Adam: Yeah, I am. So- You don't look Greek ... when they come over... No, I don't. But I am half. Yeah. My dad's Cypriot, so when they come over after, it was, like, the Cypriot War, where the Turks invaded Cyprus, and a lot of migrants come over.
[00:01:26] Anyway, so my grandparents' last name's actually Antonios.
[00:01:31] Hamish: Right.
[00:01:31] Adam: But what they did when they come over is they Anglicized the last names, so they shortened it to Anthony, so they could fit in more. So yeah, that's the background of it, anyway.
[00:01:40] Hamish: So I mean- ... kind of, kind of on the same thing, so my wife's half Chinese, and her- I thought
[00:01:45] Matt: you were about to say your last name's White, and you shortened
[00:01:49] Hamish: it.
[00:01:49] Her, her, her- I was like, "Fuck, please" ... I am probably, like, the most obviously named person here. Like, Hamish White. Um, so Lucy's last name's Gao, but when the, [00:02:00] they came o- 'Cause you know how Chinese actually have their- Yeah ... um, first name last, and their last name first. Mm-hmm. But we have it the other way around.
[00:02:06] Yeah. So her last name should've been Chow, not Gao.
[00:02:09] Adam: Yep.
[00:02:09] Hamish: Anyway. Us Aussies just wanted to fucking just have it our way. If you're coming in- That's right ... you're having it our way.
[00:02:15] Matt: Fair enough. Um,
[00:02:16] Hamish: so-
[00:02:16] Matt: But wait, did we even create that? Like, I don't know, but, like, it was, it's, it must have been something that they thought would be important
[00:02:21] Hamish: Pluck, I've got no idea.
[00:02:23] I know, we're kinda digressing a little, aren't we? We are. Um-
[00:02:26] Adam: It's all good stuff ...
[00:02:26] Hamish: Adam, you're, we've known each other for a few years. I think we, we used to be in one training platform together.
[00:02:33] Adam: Yep.
[00:02:33] Hamish: And at that point you were the building, a business partner?
[00:02:36] Adam: Um, yes I was, yep.
[00:02:38] Hamish: Yeah. Uh, do you maybe just tell us your history, like who are you, just before we get into you becoming famous over the last, uh-
[00:02:45] Adam: Famous
[00:02:45] few months ... is a bit of a stretch, but yeah, I'll, I'll give you the, I suppose the rundown. But, um, so I grew up in Goulburn, which is a small country town in, uh, New South Wales.
[00:02:58] Matt: Is that Goulburn Valley cheese? Is that... What's it famous- Not quite, no. [00:03:00] What's-
[00:03:00] Adam: No, Goulburn Valley's in- My wife's- Or the juice sort of
[00:03:02] my wife's grandad's from
[00:03:02] Matt: Goulburn.
[00:03:03] Adam: Is it? There you go. Yeah.
[00:03:04] Matt: What's it famous for one thing, isn't it, the
[00:03:06] Adam: juices? Big ram on the side of the road.
[00:03:07] Hamish: Yep.
[00:03:08] Adam: That's about it.
[00:03:09] Hamish: Is it still there? You bypass that,
[00:03:10] Adam: don't you?
[00:03:11] Hamish: Still there.
[00:03:11] Adam: You do bypass that. They actually, they put it on the back of a truck and moved it.
[00:03:14] Um, there's a cool photo if you wanna have a look online. It's massive. They moved it from one end of to- or not one end of town, about a K up the road. Um, yeah, pretty cool. So about two hours out of Canberra.
[00:03:24] Hamish: Big ram. So is that, is that pretty much Goulburn's claim to fame? The fucking moving it, moving of the ram.
[00:03:28] Moving of the ram. Everyone, everyone, everyone came out and lined the streets when the fucking ram got moved.
[00:03:34] Adam: Pretty much. But yeah, it's about 45 minutes away from Canberra and about two hours from Sydney on the hi- on the Hume. But, um, yeah, it's a good country town growing up there. Got a lot of mates there.
[00:03:45] Um, I really like it. It's a good lifestyle balance there, but. I-
[00:03:48] Matt: is there a lot of work there, like country town, or is it like a few builders, or?
[00:03:51] Adam: There's a few builders. A lot of them are me mates.
[00:03:53] Matt: Yeah,
[00:03:53] Adam: okay. Yep, there's, um, I know pretty much every builder in town and, you know, probably half of them are my really [00:04:00] close mates that I even went to school with, grew up playing footy with.
[00:04:02] Matt: Does it make it really competitive for jobs?
[00:04:04] Adam: Um- It's funny, funny you say this because I've had conversations with a couple of my good friends, and you perceive that you're in competition with each other. But then when we broke it down, we're like, "When was the last time we actually quoted against each other on a house or a client's approached us?"
[00:04:22] Um, and like two of my best mates that are builders, we couldn't even name the last time that we're even in a competitive tender together or same client approached us. So, um, I think there's, you know, there's a lot of work out there and, um, you know, if you, if you market yourself right, you're probably not up against- Yeah
[00:04:45] a lot of the other builders anyway.
[00:04:46] Hamish: You were in partnership though, so, so you say... Did you go like typical tradie- Yeah ... like chippy, builder?
[00:04:53] Adam: Yep.
[00:04:53] Hamish: Yep.
[00:04:54] Adam: Yeah. Do you know- So when I was a, when I was a young fella, I wanted to be an architect.
[00:04:57] Hamish: Right.
[00:04:58] Adam: But, um, yeah, just [00:05:00] never got the grades or anything. I went through to year 12- Yeah
[00:05:03] or year HSC, but there was probably no point because I wasn't doing any subjects where I could go to uni. Yep. Um, yeah, and then, um, I left school for a few months. I was doing landscaping for my friend's father, which is eventually who I went into partnership with, my friend. Yep. Which we can get into that.
[00:05:21] Yep Um, and then, yeah, I started my carpentry apprenticeship. So did a carpentry apprenticeship for a local builder. He did a lot of, um, lot of, like, wealthy, high-end sort of homes, mix of renovations here and there. So start to
[00:05:37] Hamish: finish stuff like, you
[00:05:38] Adam: know- Start to finish. Yeah, everything, every builder I've ever worked for and every, um, every sort of carpenter that's done a trade around our area, it's like s- proper start to finish, like doing the slabs, doing the frames- Yeah
[00:05:51] doing the roofs. We still do a lot of frame roofs. What do you, what do you think, what
[00:05:53] Hamish: do you think's better? Like for someone, like specializing in doing frames and then... Or, or, 'cause I know [00:06:00] my team, they're not the quickest framers.
[00:06:02] Adam: No.
[00:06:02] Hamish: But, you know, they can form up a slab.
[00:06:05] Adam: Yep.
[00:06:05] Hamish: A few of them can jump on a machine.
[00:06:07] Like they can do everything, put cladding on, building wraps, windowing, the whole lot.
[00:06:10] Adam: Well, I think the all-rounder's better, to be honest. Yeah. I agree. You understand how a building comes together, and then it positions you better to be
[00:06:17] Hamish: a builder. I think they make the best... I was just about to say, I think they make the best builders, yeah.
[00:06:20] Adam: But not only that, like I was able to build, I've built two of my own houses now.
[00:06:24] Hamish: Yeah.
[00:06:24] Adam: Um, new houses, like I've been able to save a lot of money doing that myself, like doing the lot, you know what I mean? Yeah. Everything that I can do, hang, hang plasterboards, roof it.
[00:06:35] Matt: Yeah. Do you still do all that yourself on your projects?
[00:06:36] Adam: So we do all of our own roofs still. Um-
[00:06:38] Matt: You can do that in New South Wales. Yeah, I think it's- I think Victoria's the only state you can't do your own roof.
[00:06:42] Hamish: Yeah.
[00:06:43] Adam: Yep.
[00:06:43] Matt: So you do your own gutter- gutters, all that?
[00:06:45] Adam: Yep. Lot, yep.
[00:06:46] Hamish: It's not hard.
[00:06:46] Adam: No, it's not.
[00:06:47] Hamish: Yeah. It's not hard. I did a lot, I did way back when, when I was sort of first cutting my teeth, I did a lot of, um, decks and pergolas and, uh, frescoes and stuff.
[00:06:54] Yeah. And we would do all our roofs.
[00:06:55] Adam: Yep.
[00:06:56] Hamish: Yeah, it's- It's,
[00:06:56] Matt: it's the box gutters and the flashings are the complicated part.
[00:06:59] Adam: Yeah, but [00:07:00] if you understand the principles of- Yeah ... how to- Water goes downhill. Yeah. Yeah. Shit runs downhill.
[00:07:04] Matt: Yeah, just get water away from the building, like.
[00:07:07] Adam: That's, that's
[00:07:08] Matt: the simple principles.
[00:07:08] I think, yeah, Victoria's the only state where you can't put your own roof sheets on. Ironically, you can put them vertically on a wall though.
[00:07:15] Hamish: Yeah.
[00:07:15] Adam: Anyway Yeah, saying that, but a lot of the houses we build, like we do acreage homes and that, and like a lot of them aren't parapets and box gutters and... Like, we have done them on old- Yeah
[00:07:24] renovations and restiva- restorations and that, but typically they're, you know, hip and-
[00:07:28] Hamish: Yeah, yeah ...
[00:07:29] Adam: gable roofs- Yeah ... which are pretty simple.
[00:07:31] Hamish: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:07:32] Adam: Yeah. So, um-
[00:07:33] Hamish: So chippy, chippy start to finish sort of stuff, and then, um, how'd you then get into a partnership? Like, when did you become a builder?
[00:07:40] Adam: Well, I actually...
[00:07:42] I didn't become a builder too early. So when I finished my apprenticeship, I, um, actually had a year in real estate. So my brother's a real estate agent, and I used to think, "Gee, y'all got it good. I might give that a try." So I finished me apprenticeship, and, um, me wife now, at the time she was in Wollongong at uni, so I moved [00:08:00] down there and I s- worked in a real estate office for my best mate's uncle for a year.
[00:08:05] Matt: And I was- Did
[00:08:05] Adam: you walk
[00:08:06] Matt: around with one AirPod in your ear?
[00:08:07] Adam: No. Well, what I was, my official- No, it would've been the The,
[00:08:11] Matt: the Bluetooth- Yeah ... back in the day that loops over your ear. It
[00:08:13] Adam: was no, none of that. The old brick phone. Um, that's what I was, I was called a prospector. So basically what I did was go around and try find leads for him.
[00:08:22] Okay. So I was door knocking literally For door knocking and cold calling for 12 months, and it, it actually taught me a lot-
[00:08:31] Hamish: Yeah ...
[00:08:32] Adam: now, looking back, about, um, sales, how to deal with people. Um, 'cause you can't... Like, you're knocking on people's doors, and we had a script that we used to have to say. So you'd never walk in and say, "Hey, are you looking to sell?"
[00:08:45] It'd be like, "Whether you're looking to move," like, you know, try to open up a conversation- Yeah ... that's basically, um, they can't say a yes or no answer to.
[00:08:54] Hamish: Yeah.
[00:08:54] Adam: So I did that. Um, I got a bit over it. It was a bit taxing. Like, you're knocking on doors, and [00:09:00] sometimes you're knocking on the same people's doors three months apart, and they're like, "Hey mate, you're not selling me house.
[00:09:04] Like, you knocked here." Do you know the
[00:09:05] Hamish: in- interesting thing about your comment about you, you think it's helped you. Yeah. I remember there was a podcast, well, a podcast I listen to, it's called How I Built This.
[00:09:13] Adam: Yeah.
[00:09:14] Hamish: With Guy Raz, yeah. Guy Raz, yeah. And they're going through, like, some of the really successful, um, business owners.
[00:09:22] Yeah ... people that own businesses. Mormons.
[00:09:24] Adam: Yeah. There you go.
[00:09:26] Hamish: Because they do 12, 18 months of these, um... What do they call them? Where they're going, uh, on their rounds- I'm not saying anything ... like, tr- trying to, trying to c- you know, they're knocking on doors. Yeah. But they're just so immune to hearing no-
[00:09:39] Matt: Yeah
[00:09:39] Hamish: that when they're, you know, they come back and they start their business, I'm, I'm paraphrasing here, by the way.
[00:09:43] Matt: Yeah. Why would
[00:09:44] Hamish: you
[00:09:44] Matt: say no?
[00:09:46] Hamish: But, you know, they're co- they're coming back, and they're, they're hearing no a lot and no a lot, and they just keep going, they keep going, they keep going. And you know, you, you apply that same mentality to running your own business.
[00:09:54] Yep. Where you're hearing no, and you're like, "Well, that's not what I want to hear. I'll just go to the next one."
[00:09:57] Matt: Yeah
[00:09:57] Hamish: And just keep going and keep going. So I [00:10:00] can understand how that-
[00:10:01] Matt: Resilience ...
[00:10:03] Hamish: well, there's resilience, but also learning how to best communicate.
[00:10:06] Matt: Yeah, that's right. '
[00:10:07] Hamish: Cause I reckon even though you've got this script, you're probably tweaking it-
[00:10:10] Matt: Yep, yeah
[00:10:11] Hamish: on the spot of like, "Well, how can I get through to this person?" Yeah. All I
[00:10:14] Matt: think about is Mormons is the- ... Book of Mormon.
[00:10:18] Hamish: Oh my God. Have you s- have you seen that?
[00:10:20] Matt: I want to go see the stage show.
[00:10:20] Hamish: Oh, the stage- Oh, man ... honestly, I know we're digressing. I remember my wife, when we went and saw it, she was seven months pregnant with our first.
[00:10:27] Matt: Yeah.
[00:10:28] Hamish: And she was paranoid she's gonna piss herself. Yeah. Like, it was hilarious.
[00:10:34] Adam: Oh, wow. Put it on the list, definitely.
[00:10:35] Hamish: Yeah, definitely should put that on the list.
[00:10:36] Matt: Um, I don't know how we got onto that topic.
[00:10:39] Hamish: Um- It was, it was a Mor- I mean, a Mormon salesman that was a real estate agent. So, so
[00:10:43] Matt: when, when did you get your builder's license?
[00:10:44] What age?
[00:10:45] Adam: Um, I probably would've been 27, 28.
[00:10:48] Matt: Okay. Maybe. So still quite young.
[00:10:49] Adam: Um-
[00:10:50] Matt: And then straight out running your business?
[00:10:51] Adam: Yeah, straight out. Sure. Um- Yep ... so I, I worked for a few different builders, um, after I come back. So I moved back [00:11:00] to Goulburn, and then took up me carpentry again, so just pretty much had a gap year- Yeah
[00:11:04] knocking on people's doors. Um, come back and I worked- Is that,
[00:11:07] Hamish: is that, is that where people from Goulburn go for their gap year?
[00:11:09] Adam: Yeah, that's right.
[00:11:10] Hamish: Two hours down the coast to Wollongong. They get a
[00:11:12] Adam: camper. Should've went, should've went a year abroad- Yeah. ... but I went knocking on people's doors in Wollongong.
[00:11:16] But anyway, um, yeah, so I come back and I worked for a few different builders, um- Just as a carpenter. Then the last builder I worked for, I worked for him the longest and probably learned the most off him, um, in terms of, um, just being a really good carpenter. Like, he, he built pretty basic standard homes, but just really, really good system of like how a house goes together.
[00:11:41] Whereas the first builder I worked for was a bit like, um, he didn't really have a good flow to build a house. Yeah. Like, it was a bit backwards and forwards and, you know, you'd be undoing some of your work sometimes to fix stuff and that. Um, he was a cost plus builder too, the first guy I worked for. So I almost...
[00:11:58] I'm of the belief that he almost [00:12:00] made more money the more we fucked around and
[00:12:02] Hamish: Right. Okay.
[00:12:03] Adam: I probably shouldn't say that, but that's how it felt at the time. Yeah. Okay. Like, there was no, there was no real clear system to how a house should go together. But the last builder I worked for really, like, taught that.
[00:12:15] Um, and yeah, really understood how a house goes together. We were building a lot more houses in a year. Yeah. Um, so I got a good system there and then, um, started to sort of run a few more jobs for him, um, on site. And then, yeah, eventually left him and started... I went out on, on my own carpentry contracting and then, um-
[00:12:39] Hamish: Like costing work, like quoting work or?
[00:12:41] Adam: Yeah, quoting work, but I was working for builders subcontracted- Yeah ... and then doing bathrooms and decks- Yeah ... and all that too. Um, anyway, an opportunity... So I had me builder's license at that point, and an opportunity landed on my doorstep where my friend, who's like a lifetime friend who I went into business with, um, his parents were [00:13:00] doing a townhouse development in town, so pretty big job, um, for two story townhouses.
[00:13:06] So, um, big job for me, first one.
[00:13:09] Hamish: Yeah.
[00:13:09] Adam: Anyway, um, they approached me, but they also wanted James, um, who was me old business partner, to also help. Um, and he wanted to do it as well. He'd just started his carpentry apprenticeship after doing landscaping and earthworks for, um, 10, 15
[00:13:27] years or whatever. He'd been doing it for a long time. Um, so we combined and went into business together and started a company. Um, and then, yeah, took on that townhouse development. I don't even know, I can't even tell you how we got the homeowner's warranty for it, but we did it. He-
[00:13:44] Hamish: I was gonna say four, four town- yeah, four townhouses.
[00:13:47] Adam: Yeah. It was a bit different back then. It went on assets that you had, and he, he'd, um, set himself up young. Um, he had some good assets. I had a home at the time, but he had some good assets Can you not use
[00:13:57] Matt: assets in New South Wales?
[00:13:59] Adam: Well, you could. [00:14:00] That's, um-
[00:14:00] Matt: Now, can you?
[00:14:02] Adam: Yeah, you can, but I'm just trying to think back because it was about 12 years ago.
[00:14:05] Yeah. 10 or 12 years ago. Um- But yeah, how we got the warranty for it at the time. So yeah, that's how we started into that apprenticeship, ah, sorry, into that partnership. Um, so we delivered that. Um, and we delivered a really good product too. Like I was a pretty, very well capable, um, carpenter obviously, and I was Pretty good at, um, building and managing h- houses as well, so I had...
[00:14:35] It's very systematic and auto- organized, so, you know, all the trades and that. But had no fucking idea about business, like none. Mm. Terrible with money.
[00:14:43] Matt: You're not, you're not meant to know, though.
[00:14:45] Adam: No, I know, but just shocking. Terrible with money. Um-
[00:14:48] Matt: What would you do?
[00:14:49] Adam: Sorry?
[00:14:50] Matt: Like, give me an example.
[00:14:52] Adam: Just no idea, like, just not putting any margin.
[00:14:55] So that job, for instance, um, which is... It's no one's fault, but it's just the way it was. So we'll just do all [00:15:00] that for $50 an hour for all of our employees. Jesus. Letting, um, his parents pay for, um, a lot of the materials. Right, okay. Like, not making any margin on it, not making any margin
[00:15:14] Hamish: on
[00:15:14] Adam: our- Time ... um, time.
[00:15:15] Hamish: But- Was it cost plus or you had a fixed price on the labor?
[00:15:18] Adam: No, it w- it was, uh... It was like a fixed price, but then it went a bit over, and... Well, we're lucky like that because we had the relationship with his parents. Yeah. It went a bit over, they got a bit more money and-
[00:15:27] Matt: Yeah ...
[00:15:27] Adam: I mean- They
[00:15:28] Matt: probably made bank out of it
[00:15:29] Adam: if it- They would've, yeah.
[00:15:30] I mean, um, but that's not their fault. Like- Yeah ... that's where- No. And, and his mother was our bookkeeper as well, and she worked for us for years for free, so, um... And she was really good. Um, she-
[00:15:44] Hamish: Sound like a really good opportunity, though. You know, like to, to- It was a good
[00:15:47] Adam: opportunity ...
[00:15:48] Hamish: I mean, 'cause that, you know, it, it- Opened a
[00:15:49] Adam: lot of doors, yeah
[00:15:50] Hamish: in, in another scenario where you're on a fixed price contract, you'd have gone bankrupt.
[00:15:54] Adam: Yeah, probably. It
[00:15:55] Matt: was probably proof of
[00:15:56] Adam: concept. Yeah.
[00:15:56] Hamish: Yeah.
[00:15:56] Adam: Yeah, that's right. So, um, I'm thankv- [00:16:00] thankful for it in a, um, in a way, the way it panned out. And then it opened doors and then, you know, then we were able to have a product that we could show.
[00:16:07] Matt: Yeah.
[00:16:08] Adam: Yeah. So then, um, when clients come to us, it was a lot easier to close the deals. Um, get them across the line. 'Cause you were, here's the... Yeah. "This is, this is what we've done."
[00:16:15] Matt: I think that's where probably young kids struggle right now- Yeah ... to do that.
[00:16:18] Hamish: Well, I mean, we've all had to buy a project at one point, haven't we?
[00:16:21] Adam: Yeah, that's it.
[00:16:21] Hamish: You know, like, and I reckon I've done it a couple of times in my life, you know? Um, you know, when we first started out, you know, you'd, you'd go in really lean and keen, and then... I know when we f- we did our first passive house. Mm. Like, I made fuck all money off that. I mean, there was COVID in there as well- Yeah
[00:16:37] in 2020, 2020. Um, I guess you just gotta do it. It's just pa- I think it's just-
[00:16:43] Adam: Yeah ...
[00:16:44] Hamish: part of being a builder. Yeah. I mean, it, you know, actually s- Well, I wish that
[00:16:47] Adam: was the only lesson, but
[00:16:47] Hamish: actually I got
[00:16:48] Adam: more to come. Yeah, I'm,
[00:16:49] Hamish: I'm sure you have, but actually even just saying that just seems so fucking ridiculous, like that you almo- it's almost, like, expected that you're gonna fucking go backwards on a, on a job or two to actually then [00:17:00] go forward.
[00:17:00] Adam: It's your tuition, I reckon almost, is what-
[00:17:03] Matt: Yeah. The talking is- You almost need to have it. Yeah. But it's the, the hard thing about building, maybe being biased here, is most, most companies will just outlay labor and they're just losing the labor. We've also gotta buy materials, so you're losing potential on labor and materials.
[00:17:14] Hamish: Mm. Mm.
[00:17:14] Matt: And you're at the mercy of so much external th- uh, things- Yeah ... such as geopolitics and stuff that could, or just everyday issues that can rise the price click of a finger with no protection.
[00:17:25] Hamish: Yeah.
[00:17:26] Matt: So, um-
[00:17:27] Hamish: Have you got other lessons?
[00:17:29] Adam: Oh, heaps. I've got about another seven years' worth after that.
[00:17:32] Matt: So you, so, so you, so how long- Sorry
[00:17:35] how long were you in business with together for?
[00:17:37] Adam: Oh, we're in business for a while, so I think we only folded it probably three and a half years ago.
[00:17:41] Matt: Do you guys still get along?
[00:17:42] Adam: Yeah. Oh, yeah. He still does all my quotes. He's a gun. Like, he's a- He just didn't want to
[00:17:46] Matt: be a builder anymore.
[00:17:47] Adam: Well, yeah, it was a, a...
[00:17:48] I can get into a bit more of it, but, um, yeah, he's a gun. Like, he's the hardest worker probably I've ever met.
[00:17:55] Matt: Yeah.
[00:17:55] Adam: But, um, yeah, didn't, like, he wasn't a carpenter by trade, so. [00:18:00] Yeah. Um, so basically when we started the business, like we had two apprentices at the time. But he was also technically apprentice, like he had a half an idea, but not really.
[00:18:10] Do you know what I mean? So- Yeah, okay ... like I had a lot of weight on my shoulders. Um, also understood the building and the quoting and all that. Um-
[00:18:19] Matt: Yeah ...
[00:18:19] Adam: only just purely because, like I'd built so many houses, I knew what components had to go into it. Yeah. So I, I b- I wore a lot of that burden on me shoulder- Yeah
[00:18:28] and it wore down on me, and we went through it for a few years. Um, and then, yeah, just after about seven years, um... And by the time it was into the seven years, like he was a more than capable carpenter. Probably didn't do too much of the quoting and the books and that still, and the managing. I was running all the jobs.
[00:18:47] I still wore a lot of that, um, burden. Um- And
[00:18:51] Hamish: you had the license?
[00:18:52] Adam: I, it was my license. That was the other thing, he didn't have a license.
[00:18:55] Hamish: Yeah. Okay.
[00:18:56] Adam: So, um-
[00:18:56] Hamish: How does that work in New South Wales? 'Cause in Victoria, [00:19:00] um, so I've got a personal license, I've got a company license.
[00:19:03] Adam: Yeah.
[00:19:03] Hamish: So say if I went and had a, uh, if I've got a business partner.
[00:19:08] Adam: Mm-hmm.
[00:19:08] Hamish: Like, and I had a partner of the business- Mm-hmm ... they would be equally liable for that.
[00:19:14] Adam: Yeah. Yeah, so he's still liable. Yeah, okay. Like he's director, you sign director-
[00:19:18] Hamish: Director ...
[00:19:18] Adam: director ID- Yeah ... indemnities and that. Yeah. So.
[00:19:21] Hamish: Yeah.
[00:19:21] Adam: And um, yeah, we've had a few things pop up. Nothing major that from our old builds, and he's always the first one there to give me a hand and- Yeah, yeah
[00:19:28] pay money. Great. So our relationship's really- That's- He's a gentleman ... probably quite
[00:19:31] Matt: rare.
[00:19:32] Adam: Yeah. Like- It's, it is rare. Yeah ...
[00:19:34] Matt: that is like, I'd say that is super rare.
[00:19:36] Hamish: Yeah.
[00:19:36] Matt: That ex-business partners even talk, let
[00:19:39] Hamish: alone- Yeah. I mean, I don't talk to my- ... still potentially work together ... I don't talk to my ex-business partner.
[00:19:42] Yeah. And do you know what? I, I get it. Like, we were in a very similar position. He had the license. Yeah. I was just about to get my license. In fact, I think I got my DBU probably towards the end of it. But there always felt like there was this- invisible kind of barrier that b- he had the license, so the burden was on [00:20:00] him.
[00:20:00] Mm. Whereas I, I was like y- your, your friend. Like, I was committed if there was any issues. Yeah. Even, you know, the 12 months afterwards. Yeah. Do
[00:20:07] Matt: you still see your Eva? Have you ever run into him or? N-
[00:20:10] Hamish: nah. I mean, every now and then.
[00:20:11] Matt: They local or?
[00:20:12] Hamish: Uh, yeah, not too far away. I see the cars every now and then, and l- as I think I've said it before, wish them all the best, just different values.
[00:20:19] Matt: Yeah.
[00:20:19] Hamish: Okay. You know? I'd, I'd, I'd like to think that, you know-
[00:20:22] Matt: Mutual respect there ...
[00:20:23] Hamish: that, maybe. I think it's, and it's t- 12 years ago. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, it's like thir- Long time
[00:20:29] Matt: ago.
[00:20:29] Hamish: It's a long time ago, you know? Yeah.
[00:20:32] Matt: You didn't know what you didn't know then either. Like, you're young, immature, excited
[00:20:35] Hamish: Well, probably like you.
[00:20:36] Yeah. I'm so grateful that I've had all these opportunities. Mm. You know? And I've had the opportunity to fail and work through things- Mm ... that I know haven't worked. And for me now, if I was ever gonna go into partnership again-
[00:20:48] Adam: Yep ...
[00:20:49] Hamish: um, you know, when we first started The Mindful Builder, there was really, you know, thoughts in my brain about what's this gonna look like?
[00:20:56] But it was kind of... It was, it was, it [00:21:00] was t- it was-
[00:21:00] Matt: I borderline don't even know how our structure works . Well- Like, it just
[00:21:03] Hamish: works at 50, 50, like ... but, but it's just, it's easy because, you know, it's very... It, it, like, Matt's building company's protected. My building company- Yeah ...'s protected. It's this isolated thing.
[00:21:10] Yep. But if I was to bring someone into my building company-
[00:21:13] Matt: Oh, yeah ...
[00:21:14] Hamish: I just-
[00:21:15] Matt: Nup.
[00:21:15] Adam: Yeah.
[00:21:15] Hamish: Nah, just... Oh.
[00:21:17] Matt: I'd rather... There's, there's multiple other wa- uh, ways to reward, uh, employees.
[00:21:21] Adam: Yeah.
[00:21:21] Hamish: I would like to think at some point, and I know this is kinda digressing a bit, that maybe there's a s- succession plan at some point.
[00:21:28] Matt: Yeah.
[00:21:28] Adam: Yeah
[00:21:28] Hamish: But I think the fairest way to do it is when I build my house. Which
[00:21:30] Matt: one of
[00:21:31] Hamish: your
[00:21:31] Matt: three
[00:21:31] Hamish: ki- Yeah
[00:21:31] Matt: Because- Which one of your three kids would you give it to?
[00:21:34] Hamish: Juniper, obviously, 'cause she's the girl. She, she'll get everything. Darcy's
[00:21:38] Matt: the girl.
[00:21:39] Hamish: Yeah. Sorry, Darcy and Phoenix. Uh, no ... th-
[00:21:42] Matt: this, this has been brought into court in f- Oh
[00:21:45] 50 years.
[00:21:45] Hamish: I wonder, I wonder if this is evidence. And they're fighting over
[00:21:49] Matt: it. It's definitely not. Um-
[00:21:52] Hamish: They're all tatted on my arm now. Yeah.
[00:21:53] Adam: Burger, there
[00:21:54] Hamish: he is. Yeah, Burger. That's Darcy. Is that Phoenix? And that's Juniper. Yeah, that's Burger.
[00:21:57] Adam: Burger.
[00:21:58] Hamish: That's Darcy, and that's Jun- that's a juniper [00:22:00] branch. Yeah, nice.
[00:22:00] Matt: Um, so you, you then just re, kinda re, not rebranded. You started your own company.
[00:22:06] Adam: So yeah, it was essentially, um-
[00:22:08] Hamish: Can you, can you talk about, like, how, like, what was the- Transition ... what was the deciding factor that you guys split up? Was it
[00:22:15] Matt: like a conversation
[00:22:15] Adam: at the time? Oh, we had, we had a few little blowups.
[00:22:17] Nothing major, but, um, you know, and some of them were probably my fault. Um, but, um, yeah, they, they're not... That was nothing major that it's hinders our friendship today. Um, but in the end, he ended up coming to me, um, and said, "Look, I can see you're unhappy and I feel like I might be holding you back in some ways."
[00:22:37] And at, at this point I'd started professional development and business coaching and- Yeah ... had all these great ideas and-
[00:22:43] Hamish: Yep ...
[00:22:44] Adam: I think he was just happy to... You know what I mean? Like, he's, he's always been that hard worker that wanted to just turn up, do the work.
[00:22:51] Hamish: Go home.
[00:22:52] Adam: You know? Yeah. Go home. Yeah. 100%. And, um, you know, he had farms and that, that he was starting to get into cattle and different interests- And there's te- there's
[00:22:58] Hamish: tension there, like-
[00:22:59] Adam: Yeah, [00:23:00] that's right
[00:23:00] yeah. Yeah. And like, he just said in the end, "Look, I think it's better off we just, um, move apart." But the transition, like... And I was like, "Yeah, sweet." And, um-
[00:23:10] Matt: Was the load off your shoulders?
[00:23:12] Adam: It felt like a little bit. It felt like I was unwrapped and could just go do all my plans that I want to, 'cause I had big visions for the business and where I wanted to take stuff and take it to.
[00:23:22] Um, and not that he was holding me back, but it's just, it's harder to get adoption, like- You know, I'm sitting at home of a night watching all these videos and, like, business development, reading books, podcasts, got all these ideas, and you're trying to take it to them and, um, explain them and push your vision onto them and, like, unless they're in the same room,
[00:23:43] Matt: it's just- It's even hard with your employees sometimes, and you've got 100% of the stake- Yeah, that's right
[00:23:46] let alone someone that has 50%. Yeah.
[00:23:49] Adam: Yep. So, um, yeah, so in the end we just called it, but it was a really easy transition because, um, like when you're in a small town and you're a builder, [00:24:00] even though you've got your company name, you're still known by you as the builder. Yeah. Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah.
[00:24:04] So, like, it wasn't really like starting a new company. There was heaps of benefits to it, which I'll get into, but I still carried all of my name, all of my projects that I'd- Mm ... built through. So it wasn't like starting new. So it was like a perfect- You
[00:24:17] Matt: had evidence. Like you
[00:24:18] Adam: had the proof of concept. Had...
[00:24:20] Well, just- Yeah ... just had, had clients, had people that wanted to build for me. Um, you know? Yeah. Had the team. I took the team-
[00:24:27] Matt: Yeah ... with me.
[00:24:27] Adam: Um, so yeah, but the advantages of it was I was able to blow up my systems.
[00:24:35] Matt: Yeah.
[00:24:35] Adam: Okay? So it's really, um... And I try to teach builders this now, that you almost have to treat your business, if you wanna start it again and try fix things, as starting a new business.
[00:24:45] Mm. Does that make sense?
[00:24:46] Matt: Did you go through a whole systems thing or you just sort of created it yourself?
[00:24:50] Adam: Well, it was just, uh, I didn't go through a systems thing, but what I mean is, like, I was able to just wipe the business clean, so start a new zero, start a new- Yeah ... Mind The [00:25:00] Builder account. Full,
[00:25:00] Hamish: full autonomy,
[00:25:01] Adam: yeah.
[00:25:01] Yeah. And, like- Is that when you first come
[00:25:02] Matt: across Mind The Builder? Just that
[00:25:03] was-
[00:25:03] Adam: That's... I was using it in the old company. So I'd been using Mind The Builder for about f- four or five years. I was one of the early adopters.
[00:25:10] Matt: Yeah, okay.
[00:25:10] Hamish: Because I, I remember we caught up in Adelaide.
[00:25:14] Adam: Yep.
[00:25:15] Hamish: Y- like would've been three and a bit years ago.
[00:25:17] Yep. And I, I reckon we actually had a conversation, it would've been around about the same time when you and your business partner- Yep ... had split up. Yep. I reckon in fact it was within- Yeah ... six to eight months or something. And then from the outside looking in- To knowing you now, like it just seems like Veo has just gone from zero to fucking up here in such a short period of time.
[00:25:39] Adam: Yeah. It's, it's, the b- it's the business I want it to be. It's not, like, I wouldn't say it's... It's not a massive company, but I've just got it in that perfect sweet spot where I'm really happy, me employees are awesome. How many- I've got a really good- How many team? So I've got six, two VAs. Yep. Um-
[00:25:58] Hamish: Six plus two [00:26:00] VAs or including- Yep
[00:26:00] Adam: yeah. Nah, nah, plus two VAs. Okay. Yep. And I've got me two main, um, two main guys, me project managers I call them- Yeah ... but they're leading hand carpenters, whatever you- Yeah ... wanna call them. How many projects at once? Probably I've got three on the run now, so never more than three. Three or two. Yeah. Um- About that $1.5 to $2
[00:26:16] Matt: million.
[00:26:17] Yep.
[00:26:17] Adam: Yep, that's right. Yep. Okay. Yeah, there's not, not much you're doing under a million dollars these days, but- No.
[00:26:22] Matt: Yeah.
[00:26:22] Adam: Um-
[00:26:23] Matt: Full, full house.
[00:26:24] Adam: Yeah, that's it. There's not.
[00:26:26] Matt: Yeah.
[00:26:26] Adam: Like, I've got projects coming up that, you know, will probably be tipping four, five million- Geez ... in the pipeline, so there's some good ones.
[00:26:33] As
[00:26:33] Hamish: in individual homes?
[00:26:34] Adam: Yep.
[00:26:34] Hamish: Yeah, yeah, right. Okay. Wow.
[00:26:35] Adam: If I can get them across the line, but, um, but I mean, you know, working with the clients closely in ACL agreements and working through it, and they're really good.
[00:26:43] Hamish: Where does the name Veo come from?
[00:26:44] Adam: So my two... I've got three boys.
[00:26:47] Hamish: Mm-hmm.
[00:26:48] Adam: My two eldest at the time when I named it is Vinnie and Leo, so V for Vinnie and EO for Leo.
[00:26:54] Veo.
[00:26:57] Matt: Oh, so you so three
[00:26:58] Hamish: c- What's your third kid's name? Raf. [00:27:00]
[00:27:00] Adam: So I've got two of the Ninja Turtles. Veo. Leo, Leo and Raf.
[00:27:02] Hamish: Veo. How can you fit Raf into it?
[00:27:05] Adam: Uh-
[00:27:05] Hamish: Give him the business. So, yeah, he- Raf gets the business ...
[00:27:08] Adam: he probably will, yeah. Are
[00:27:09] Hamish: they actually named after the Ninja Turtles?
[00:27:11] Adam: Uh, nah, it didn't work out that way.
[00:27:12] But, uh, I mean, it worked out that way, but it wasn't planned. Yeah.
[00:27:17] Hamish: Uh, so how's, how's it having three boys?
[00:27:20] Adam: Yeah, it's... I'm a boy family, like proper.
[00:27:23] Hamish: How, how old are your kids?
[00:27:24] Adam: Uh, seven, six, and two. Yep.
[00:27:28] Matt: Fuck. Yeah,
[00:27:29] Adam: well, well- Yeah, it's pretty hectic ...
[00:27:30] Matt: we're... Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:27:31] Hamish: So, I mean, I've got... Yeah, I'm n- nine, five, and one.
[00:27:35] Adam: Yep.
[00:27:35] Hamish: Almost 10, almost 6, almost one and a half. It's wild.
[00:27:39] Adam: Yeah.
[00:27:40] Hamish: It's a wild ride.
[00:27:41] Adam: Yeah, it is. Yeah. Yeah, three boys is... I see, like, some girls, I've got, um, girl nieces. Um- Does life a lot easier ... obviously girl nieces, that's dumb to say. Yeah. Yeah. But I've got nieces. Um, and you see them, how calm they are, and they sit down and play with dolls and that, and then our boys are flipping over the back of the lounge and just punching each other, [00:28:00] like.
[00:28:00] Matt: I reckon that'd be my daughter.
[00:28:01] Hamish: I, I, I actually think... I, I watched Juni, and I... Maybe it's just 'cause she's feeding off Phoenix and Darcy- Mate, she's not sitting in the corner reading a book, playing with dolls Yeah, well She is probably the most physical out of all of them Out
[00:28:16] Matt: of my fucking way
[00:28:17] Hamish: And yeah, like she just rules the...
[00:28:19] She's Queen Junie. Yeah She just rules the roost around the house. Yeah. She just toddles around. She- Is, is Noah walking yet?
[00:28:25] Matt: Yeah, yeah, she's on, on her own
[00:28:27] Hamish: Just cruising around. Yeah Where's Junie? I don't know
[00:28:29] Matt: Climbing upstairs. Yeah. Whatever she wants to. Like, yeah, up, like walks upstairs Yeah,
[00:28:33] Hamish: up down ... you know?
[00:28:33] Yeah
[00:28:33] Matt: Yeah, and you're just like, "Oh"
[00:28:34] Hamish: I, I actually reckon Junie will be the one, where's Junie? Oh, she's on the roof
[00:28:37] Matt: Yeah.
[00:28:38] Hamish: She's, um, yeah, we- there's science.
[00:28:41] Matt: Yes. So I wanna jump into this, can we jump into the whole AI thing now?
[00:28:44] Hamish: Not yet. Ugh. I don't wanna go, 'cause I'm, 'cause I... I mean, I look at someone like Adam, and I've know- I've got to known really well for a while, and like, you know, I think that, you know, as a business I've got a pretty good brand and all that kind of stuff.
[00:28:56] But then I look at Adam and I'm like, "Fuck, there's so much that I wanna take from your [00:29:00] business- ... and put in my business from a structure point of view." So w- where does this whole like systems thinking come from? 'Cause for me, I've had to fucking learn it.
[00:29:10] Adam: Yeah
[00:29:10] Hamish: And it's challenging, but it sounds as if the system side of things become, comes really natural to you.
[00:29:15] Adam: Yeah. Um-
[00:29:17] Hamish: And you said you weren't really academic at school, which is probably-
[00:29:20] Adam: I wasn't not academic, I just didn't apply myself. Okay.
[00:29:22] Hamish: Yeah
[00:29:23] Adam: Yeah. I'd like to think I've always been pretty- For sure ... pretty and switched on. Yeah, yeah, okay. Yeah But, um, yeah, I think it honestly just comes from carpentry. Like, you have to be systematic in a way to be a good carpenter.
[00:29:33] Like, it's a process. Yeah Um, if you can apply that thinking to your like business structure, then-
[00:29:40] Hamish: See, I think this is where I struggle, though. So I've, you know, I, 'cause I got into carpentry a bit later, but for the first time in my life when I stepped on a construction site, that's when actually things made sense.
[00:29:50] Adam: Yeah
[00:29:51] Hamish: I could actually see, "Oh, I know how to get to that."
[00:29:54] Adam: Yeah
[00:29:55] Hamish: But what I really struggle with is actually putting that into words.
[00:29:58] Adam: Mm.
[00:29:58] Hamish: And then putting that into a process [00:30:00] to follow. Like I'll sit down with a pen and paper and I'll just, I'll get lost.
[00:30:03] Adam: Yeah
[00:30:03] Hamish: I actually can't, I really struggle getting it out of here and putting it down here.
[00:30:08] Yeah I just... Help me, Adam. N- and look, I'm
[00:30:14] Matt: getting a lot better That was... Yeah I'm getting a lot
[00:30:15] Hamish: better at it now I find systems so boring I, well, I- Like- ... I don't now that we're,
[00:30:16] Matt: now- I've
[00:30:19] Hamish: solved it. Now that we're, now that we've, 'cause I've shown you what we've done in- Yeah, yeah ... in ECI. It's awesome. Like I, I get it now. I understand it now. Yeah But that was hard for me.
[00:30:29] Matt: Yeah
[00:30:29] Hamish: But now I've g- now I guess I, I, I- Is that '
[00:30:31] Matt: cause you just go do it, and you just go, "I can do that" Exactly. Yeah, that's
[00:30:34] Hamish: me, yeah And that's, that's the thing.
[00:30:35] Yeah I, I just go, "Well, I'll just go and do it"
[00:30:36] Adam: Yeah
[00:30:37] Hamish: Yeah.
[00:30:38] Adam: Yeah. I, I don't know. It's just, um-
[00:30:41] Yeah, I think it just probably comes from that. Maybe a bit of in me, um, DNA and persona- Yeah ... it might fit in well. But, um, yeah, I don't know. I like, I like being a leader and in- instructing people. Yeah. And, like, guiding. I think it's just-
[00:30:57] Matt: Yeah ... in
[00:30:57] Adam: my
[00:30:58] Matt: DNA.
[00:30:58] Adam: Is
[00:30:58] Matt: that, is that how you've got your two [00:31:00] VAs? Is that why, 'cause you're systems based?
[00:31:03] Adam: Um, yeah.
[00:31:04] Matt: Yeah. It
[00:31:04] Adam: allows
[00:31:04] Matt: you? I've just- 'Cause I think some
[00:31:05] Adam: people- I've been really successful with my VAs, and a lot of people, um, say, you know, "Oh, I've tried VAs, it doesn't work."
[00:31:12] Matt: No, that's probably the owner of the
[00:31:13] Adam: business. Yeah. It's, it's, that's what I believe too. Yeah.
[00:31:14] Hamish: I've, I've got two, and they're fucking awesome.
[00:31:17] Adam: Yeah. Mine are gents. The,
[00:31:18] Hamish: the, so-
[00:31:18] Matt: User input equals output.
[00:31:20] Hamish: Yeah. Exa- exactly. And I, and I reckon mine have got better as I've got better at communicating. You know? Yeah. Yeah. People just
[00:31:25] Matt: think that they're gonna pick up your knowledge at the click of a finger. No, it's just- So it's like, a- and it's, "Oh, it's cheap labor."
[00:31:29] Like-
[00:31:30] Hamish: It's not set and forget. Yeah, it's- It's not, it's not like, "Here, here's the problem. Fix it." Yeah. It's like... No.
[00:31:34] Adam: The problem is, if you bring VAs into a messy, unstructured business, like, you're going to create more pain than good.
[00:31:41] Hamish: Yeah,
[00:31:41] Adam: I agree with you. Um- So they've been
[00:31:44] Matt: with you for a while?
[00:31:45] Adam: Yeah, so Jude's been with me two years.
[00:31:47] Yeah. And Belly's been with me 12 months.
[00:31:49] Hamish: Yeah. And what's their role in your business?
[00:31:51] Adam: So Jude, well, she's now more so in One Drops. Yeah. Helps me with that. But she'll do, like, um, selections, client relations. Yeah. Uh, she's an architect, so she'll do [00:32:00] a bit of drafting for me. Yeah, awesome.
[00:32:01] Matt: Oh, that's cool.
[00:32:02] Adam: So, um, which we'll get into.
[00:32:03] I'm pretty proficient in SketchUp and- Yeah ... Pluspec and all that as well. Um, but, like, I'll do my own- So
[00:32:10] Matt: what don't you do?
[00:32:13] Adam: Um, well, I don't use it so much now, 'cause I use V2E, which I'm sure a lot of people do. Yeah. But, like, that's how I, you know, got involved with Tom, 'cause I was using the Pluspec program and SketchUp to- And
[00:32:26] Hamish: what about y- what about your other VA?
[00:32:27] What do they-
[00:32:27] Adam: So he's like a project administrator. Um, and he does pretty much all pre-construction stuff. Yeah. So, which is a really good story. I've got a project at the moment that he's pretty much brought through. Um, so, like, I'd get the sale across the line, get them converted, um, and now it's in the middle of doing a contract estimate, and it will probably go to contract, and I've done very, very little with it, like besides just being the-
[00:32:55] Hamish: And is he sending it out to trades for quotes?
[00:32:57] He's- Everything, yep ... he's, he's liaising with Tom from V2E.
[00:32:59] Adam: He's done the [00:33:00] feasibility.
[00:33:00] Hamish: Yep.
[00:33:00] Adam: He's done the budget estimate. Yep.
[00:33:01] Hamish: What,
[00:33:02] Matt: what's his background? Construction?
[00:33:04] Adam: Uh, he was a estimate, ah.
[00:33:07] Matt: Okay, so he had some, he understood how it- Yeah ... c- a building goes
[00:33:10] Adam: together. He understood it, yeah.
[00:33:11] Matt: That's, uh, w- why I want to say that is don't, I think if you are gonna go get a VA, don't expect to be able them to have that construction knowledge.
[00:33:17] No, but I put a lot of time into him- Yeah,
[00:33:19] Adam: yeah ... and a lot of
[00:33:19] Matt: good
[00:33:19] Adam: systems- Yeah ... and a lot of good structure for him to be able to do that.
[00:33:22] Hamish: I, I feel like Robert, you know, hope Rob is listening to this, over the last few months- Yep ... in particular, where I've said, "Mate, you're the estimator," I'm putting a lot of the onus back onto him.
[00:33:32] Adam: Yep.
[00:33:33] Hamish: You know, he's, he's really, uh, flourishing because I'm giving him autonomy.
[00:33:37] Adam: Yep.
[00:33:38] Hamish: You know, setting up some guardrails and stuff- Yeah ... but he's doing most of the liaising with V2E now, and- Yeah,
[00:33:42] Adam: that's it ...
[00:33:43] Hamish: putting it all into One Build, you know. I'm, I'm almost like the architect up the top sort of saying, "I think we just need to fix this a little bit now."
[00:33:50] Yeah. You know, that's great. In your
[00:33:52] Matt: tur- turtleneck sweater?
[00:33:53] Hamish: In my turtleneck sweater, yeah. Yeah. In a, and a s- and a, and my glasses and my hair. But
[00:33:57] Adam: this will probably come back into what I talk about later, [00:34:00] but it's e- really easy for me to monitor what my VAs are doing because I use WonderBuilder as a single source of truth, and I know that's where all their work happens- Mm-hmm
[00:34:07] all their communication. Yeah. So for me to go in and see where he's at on projects, what he's done each day, is a really quick and easy process for me.
[00:34:16] Matt: So you literally use it for everything? Everything.
[00:34:18] Adam: I'm, I
[00:34:18] Matt: can't wait till October 16th, 17th.
[00:34:21] Adam: Everything. Yeah. Which we'll get into, but, uh-
[00:34:23] Matt: No, like, the only thing you obviously wouldn't use it for is, like, your Google Workspace, like your g- your emails, like-
[00:34:29] Adam: Yeah, so but I send a lot of emails out of WonderBuild.
[00:34:32] Yeah. And all my client communication's in WonderBuild. Hang
[00:34:34] Matt: on,
[00:34:34] Hamish: do
[00:34:34] Matt: you send it
[00:34:35] Hamish: or
[00:34:35] Matt: does your AI agent send it? Uh,
[00:34:38] Adam: a bit of both. Mm. Yeah, no, mainly AI sending stuff out, but, um, yeah, it's-
[00:34:44] Hamish: I won't chew into the microphone. I gotta, I just gotta fucking capture him.
[00:34:48] Adam: Well, we'll get into that, but yeah. So I suppose cycling back to where my business and I was able to blow up the systems and start again, um, so it was, like, the perfect scenario 'cause I had, [00:35:00] I had my team, I had, um, my brand.
[00:35:04] Even though I changed the name, I had the brand, I had the name. All I needed now was to just start my systems and all that new. So- A- and
[00:35:12] Hamish: how did you, if you've got the same team and they're used to operating one way, how did they, how was that transition from old way of doing things to new way of doing things?
[00:35:20] Adam: I mean, yeah, it was, it was, it took time, but they're, like- I know, um, like Luke Davies in Future Builder talks about this a lot, like you've really gotta find, um, a good team that adopts, um, your philosophies. So- Yeah ... and I've, I'm lucky, like my two main guys, they're, they're awesome. Like they've been my, both my apprentices that have been with me from the start of my previous business.
[00:35:44] They've been with me nearly 10 years.
[00:35:45] Hamish: Yeah. Okay.
[00:35:46] Adam: Yep. So- Yeah ... and they're unreal, so they out, really understand me. They know how much of a prick I can be sometimes. Use your input equals good output. Yeah. It's
[00:35:52] Matt: the same principle whether you use- But- ... whatever. Yeah.
[00:35:55] Adam: But yeah, I just... And I drive standards, um, not only [00:36:00] on site, but with what they have to produce as project managers.
[00:36:03] Yeah. So like even the daily toolbox talks, site diaries, like they know that that is a standard that I expect. Yeah. And if they don't do it, I'll be straight onto them about it. Yeah. Or I've got AI onto them now Yeah, yeah ... following them up. But like a lot of business owners struggle with that, like especially if they're mates or they've been with you a long time, like they don't know how to be authoritative.
[00:36:25] Hamish: Mm.
[00:36:26] Adam: If that makes sense. I struggle with that at times. But you got to... Yeah.
[00:36:28] Hamish: Yeah. Yeah, no, me too. I, I mean, I've, I've been fortunate. I've had, I've had a couple of people like on the journey and, and I, and I must admit over my journey at Sanctum Homes, it's gone from total fucking ADHD chaos- Yeah ... to much tighter, much tighter, much tighter.
[00:36:45] But- It's almost over that evolution of me realizing what I'm doing and trying to change and, and every, every single time I make a change it gets better and better and better. Yep. I kinda now feel like I'm at a point in time where people are like, "Okay, cool." [00:37:00] Where we were to where we are now is, like, miles apart.
[00:37:03] Adam: Yep.
[00:37:03] Hamish: And it's only gonna get better for the next part. So, like, the people that are still in the business now kinda see what I'm trying to do and see what I'm trying to implement. Yep. And, you know, most of the people are on board.
[00:37:14] Adam: Yep. Yeah.
[00:37:15] Hamish: And, and the new people I'm com- that, you know, who, who are coming in, my narrative is we're a systems focused business.
[00:37:21] Yeah,
[00:37:22] Adam: that's it.
[00:37:22] Hamish: You know, so you're actually bringing them on board from the beginning. Not trying to convince the guy who's been with me for 11 years of- Yeah ... being fucking up and down the rollercoaster- Yeah ... a dozen times.
[00:37:31] Adam: It's good for them to see that because- Yeah ... like, you know, they probably see the improvements then too, and like most logical thinking people would, like, prefer a systems and a structured business.
[00:37:44] Hamish: Yeah.
[00:37:45] Adam: So- Yeah, yeah, yeah ... like your f- your employees, I mean. So- Yeah, definitely.
[00:37:48] Hamish: Sets boundaries.
[00:37:49] Adam: Yeah, that's right. What
[00:37:49] Hamish: expectations?
[00:37:50] Adam: Yeah.
[00:37:51] Hamish: Yeah. Everyone likes clear expe- it's like-
[00:37:52] Adam: Yeah,
[00:37:52] Hamish: that's right ... you know, when, when, you know, we did a co- recorded a podcast before this called, you know, we were talking about tender and negotiated tender.
[00:37:58] Yeah. You know? [00:38:00] I know my pre-construction process is step by step by step by step by step. So if a client's have got a q- question about something, I can be like, "Oh, well, this is what happens next"
[00:38:08] Adam: Yep. Yep. "
[00:38:09] Hamish: Look at that little infogram I sent you" Yeah. You know, that's what's, that's what's next.
[00:38:13] Adam: Yep.
[00:38:14] Hamish: Um, so your, the, the type of builds that you're doing now, what, what do they look like?
[00:38:18] Are they... Have, have you kind of dabbled in the whole high performance thing? Are you, or-
[00:38:22] Adam: Um, not really. Not outside of wrapping a house tight- Yeah, yeah ... and making it water-
[00:38:29] Hamish: Yeah ...
[00:38:29] Adam: um, watertight obviously. Yeah. Um-
[00:38:32] Hamish: Is there
[00:38:32] Adam: a demand? But I've done my... Well, I think there will be, 'cause we're in the perfect climate for it.
[00:38:37] Yeah, you are. Like, we're in climate zone, I mean, yous would probably disagree. There's, it doesn't matter what climate you're in, the passive house is- Yeah, totally.
[00:38:43] Matt: Yeah. But, you
[00:38:43] Adam: know- But- ... it's,
[00:38:44] Matt: it's an easier sell in a- Yeah, that's
[00:38:45] Adam: right ... in a,
[00:38:45] Matt: in a swing from cold to hot. What, what climate zone
[00:38:47] Adam: are you? Seven.
[00:38:48] Matt: Yeah, so same as us. Yeah. So cool temperate.
[00:38:50] Hamish: No, we're
[00:38:50] Adam: six.
[00:38:50] Matt: Are we?
[00:38:51] Hamish: We're six, but they're s- so seven, so Goul- Goulburn's- Oh, seven's worse. That... Isn't Tassie
[00:38:54] Matt: seven? Gou-
[00:38:55] Hamish: Goulburn's, um, like, it's extreme. Yeah. Like, it's hot and it's cold. Yeah.
[00:38:59] Adam: Like, we get [00:39:00] some mornings are minus 10. Yeah. You know what I mean? And then 40 degrees summer.
[00:39:03] So you're like in the bottom of Valley
[00:39:03] Hamish: or something? Is it colder than Canberra?
[00:39:05] Adam: Oh, similar, but yeah.
[00:39:07] Hamish: You'd be, you'd be on par with that sort- Yeah ... of Canberra climate there.
[00:39:09] Adam: Like, we'll get snow every second year.
[00:39:11] Hamish: Yeah. Oh, deadsets. And, and then it might be 40 plus during the summer. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:39:15] Adam: Easily, yep.
[00:39:16] Yeah. Yep. So- You know, we get the swings. Um-
[00:39:20] Matt: Oh, why wouldn't you wanna build, like-
[00:39:23] Adam: Yeah ...
[00:39:24] Matt: if it's negative 10 outside? Geez.
[00:39:26] Adam: Yeah. So that's definitely something, and that's the goal. And, um, yeah, like I'm in the middle of doing... Well, I've finished me Passive House course, but I haven't sat the test. Yeah.
[00:39:35] Matt: So- Don't bother.
[00:39:37] I'm gonna tell you straight up. Uh- Sorry.
[00:39:38] Hamish: I'd just do one. Just do, just do
[00:39:39] Adam: one. Um, yeah, I'll do it. But, um- You'll learn more
[00:39:42] Matt: on doing the Passive House
[00:39:43] Adam: than- Yeah, but that's right. So the next house that I build for myself, um, I'm gonna try find some acreage, and that w- that's what it'll be. It'll be- Yeah, Passive House
[00:39:51] I'm gonna try aim for a Passive House. And, and- And that will be my lead way into-
[00:39:54] Hamish: And can I ask the motivations behind it? I'll, um, you know, I know my, from, from [00:40:00] day one, my sort of narrative in my business was I'm a sustainable builder.
[00:40:03] Adam: Mm-hmm.
[00:40:04] Hamish: But is your motivation... And, and that was kind of, you know, when I found Passive House, it was just a nice way to kinda wrap a bow around it.
[00:40:11] Is your motivations more just for health and comfort?
[00:40:14] Adam: Yeah. Well, I just grew up in, um... and this isn't a knock on me parents or anything, but I grew up in some houses were old fibro-
[00:40:22] Hamish: Yeah, okay ...
[00:40:22] Adam: shacks. Yeah. We were cold.
[00:40:24] Hamish: Yeah.
[00:40:24] Adam: Um, you know, lived in a lot of old houses. Um, and I got those memories still with me.
[00:40:29] Moldy houses as well. Yeah. I remember going into some of me bathrooms, like covered in mold.
[00:40:34] Hamish: Yeah, right.
[00:40:35] Adam: And it doesn't matter how much you clean them, that still comes back like- Comes back, yeah ... um, so I suppose that sort of lingers-
[00:40:41] Hamish: Yeah ...
[00:40:41] Adam: um, in me mind, and you can see... You know what I
[00:40:44] Hamish: mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, there's a, there's a, there's a easy solution to-
[00:40:47] Adam: There is
[00:40:48] not have, yeah ... there is a solution.
[00:40:49] Hamish: Yeah.
[00:40:49] Adam: Yeah.
[00:40:49] Matt: It's also just like having lived in one, like I can tell you how, um, this winter, it's the first winter, it has been so easy to get through winter. Usually I'm trying to get away up, up [00:41:00] north into hotter weather. And mentally, like it has been such an easy winter to get through.
[00:41:05] Like- Yeah ... ju- you just cruise through it. You, you do not care. Yeah. And I, I think- Hasn't
[00:41:10] Hamish: been like that in my house.
[00:41:11] Matt: Oh, like honestly could not give- When you build your shed,
[00:41:13] Hamish: it will
[00:41:14] Matt: be. But I couldn't give- Yeah, when I build my- But I couldn't give two fucks about what's happening outside, 'cause I know when I walk back home end of the day or at night, like it's...
[00:41:20] My bill last month was $87 in winter- Mm ... and half of that was charging the car.
[00:41:25] Adam: Yeah.
[00:41:26] Hamish: Yeah.
[00:41:26] Matt: Like- So- And that is in the worst month of the year for solar production.
[00:41:29] Hamish: No, the reason I ask, right, 'cause I know that there are, like a lot of people out there go, "Oh, I don't wanna buy into that sustainable bullshit."
[00:41:35] Yeah. And, and I wanna say the message, there's not, like it's probably not a fucking sustainable home, to be honest with you, with all the shit that goes into it. Yeah, durability and comfort. But it's durable health- Dur- durable home ... comfort,
[00:41:43] Adam: yeah.
[00:41:44] Matt: Yeah. I, I, yeah, I think, I think we've got the whole message wrong.
[00:41:47] I think the sustainability side of things is one element, but I think we talk about it completely-
[00:41:52] Hamish: I agree ...
[00:41:53] Matt: wrongly. I still, I still haven't worked out how to- It's the durability
[00:41:55] Adam: I reckon.
[00:41:55] Hamish: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:41:56] Adam: That's probably the biggest
[00:41:58] Hamish: attraction.
[00:41:58] Matt: Yeah.
[00:41:58] Hamish: If you think about [00:42:00] the level of detail that goes into something that's never seen- Mm.
[00:42:04] I think that's a really good illustration of how the rest of the house is- Yeah ... gonna get built.
[00:42:08] Adam: Yeah.
[00:42:08] Matt: But the issue is we set the base minimum build of a home to be like- Beyond probably below minimum standards. Is that, that's what each, a normal home should be.
[00:42:17] Adam: Yeah.
[00:42:18] Matt: Uh, and, and we've set our baseline at that, and it, and it, and it's confused the market, and it's never gonna change.
[00:42:23] Like, I'm glass half empty on that one. Like, I, I think it's forever and a day gonna be an uphill battle to convince people as, as a, as a general market. I
[00:42:34] Hamish: think it's becoming broader, but I think this is a- The m- ... whole other topic
[00:42:37] Matt: Yeah, but the most pe- the people that live in these passive houses are mainly builders, 'cause that's how they build their own homes.
[00:42:41] So doesn't that not tell you something?
[00:42:43] Hamish: Yeah, I agree. Now, I, uh, want to ask a question. How does a through-and-through country boy from Goulburn playing footy- Mm ... knocking around with his mates, knocking on people's doors-
[00:42:55] Matt: Yep ...
[00:42:56] Hamish: become a fucking AI master? Can
[00:42:58] Matt: we do AI another [00:43:00] episode now?
[00:43:01] Hamish: Well, this is a good transition where we- it's a two-part episode.
[00:43:03] Matt: It's gonna, it's gonna be a three-part now.
[00:43:05] Hamish: No, keep going. It's... N- now this is... Sorry, guys, this is a two-part episode. You're gonna have to listen in to next week to hear this next story.
[00:43:09] Matt: Yeah, so we got to cut the- Well, I don't- Well, let's can it now and we'll- Yeah ... they can wait till next week.
[00:43:13] Hamish: Is this how we're ending the podcast?
[00:43:14] Matt: Yeah. Fuck everyone else. All right. It makes my life easier. Sorry,
[00:43:17] Hamish: guys.
[00:43:20] Uh- See you next week. We're, we're... I'm just, this a teaser for next week.