Getting romantic with your craft
Some episodes remind you why you started a podcast in the first place.
We sat down with Erik, a German journeyman carpenter, and within about five minutes, we were already thinking, hang on… have we made life way more complicated than it needs to be? Because Erik is living inside a tradition that feels almost impossible in 2026: travelling for three years and one day, working wherever he can, learning from other tradespeople, and doing it without a mobile phone.
Not as a gimmick. As a way of life.
The Journeyman Years
Erik’s story centres around the German tradition of the Journeyman Years. This is a rite of passage where carpenters (and other trades) leave home to sharpen their skills, meet other craftspeople, and learn how to work in different environments. It is part training, part travel, part personal development… and it comes with rules that force you to rely on people, not apps.
No scrolling. No “just Google it.” No disappearing into your screen when a conversation gets awkward. You have to talk to people. You have to ask. You have to be present.
Craft, Not Just a Trade
One thing we loved about Erik is how he talks about carpentry. Not as “work” or “a job,” but as craft. That word matters. It carries a kind of pride and care that can get lost when everything becomes about speed, output, and getting to the next thing.
Listening to him, we found ourselves reflecting on our own relationship with building. Do we still treat it like craft? Do we still feel that sense of love for the work? Or have we let the pressure of modern construction, timelines, budgets, admin, noise and flatten it into something purely transactional?
Erik’s enthusiasm was a good reminder: the way you think about your work changes the way you do your work.
The Accidental Magic of Saying Yes
Erik’s journey has taken him through places and jobs that sound like they belong in a novel. Copper drill pads in Norway. Potato farming in Azerbaijan. Random opportunities that only happen when you are moving slowly enough to notice them and open enough to say yes.
There is also something beautiful about how small and connected the world of trades can be. Erik meeting Daniel Jakobs, another German carpenter here in Australia, is one of those moments that feels both completely unlikely and totally inevitable.
Germany vs Australia: Glue, Nail Guns, and Culture Shock
We also got into the differences between building culture in Germany and here in Australia and Erik had some very honest observations. The big one? We love glue. And nail guns. A lot.
For him, it was a bit of a shock, coming from a tradition that leans heavily into different methods and a different relationship with materials. But what stood out was not judgment it was curiosity. Erik is not here to prove one way is superior. He is here to learn, adapt, and understand why things are done the way they are.
That mindset is rare. And it is exactly what makes him such a good guest.
No Phone, More Life
The most unexpectedly powerful part of the conversation was what life looks like without a phone. Erik is not doing it to be edgy. He is doing it because it forces him into real connection.
He has to ask for directions. He has to make conversation. He has to be bored sometimes. He has to sit in the moment instead of filling every gap with noise. And as we talked about it, it became obvious how much modern life trains us to avoid stillness.
Erik’s way of living is a reminder that presence is not a personality trait. It is a practice.
What’s Next: Mastery, Family, and the Long Road
Erik is still in the middle of his journey. He is working, travelling, learning, and eventually he wants to settle down, have a family, and maybe become a master carpenter.
But for now, he is doing the thing most of us say we want to do; learn, live simply, and stay open to what comes next.
LINKS:
Pro Clima - https://mindful-builder.captivate.fm/proclima
MEGT - https://mindful-builder.captivate.fm/megt
Connect with us on Instagram: @themindfulbuilderpod
Website: www.yoursanctum.com.au/
Connect with Matt:
Instagram: @carlandconstructions
Website: www.carlandconstructions.com/
-
[00:00:00] Matt: This is fun. There's four of us. Yeah. Um, so we are coming from the proclama Built to Last Office headquarters. It's actually a really cool setup here. So, um, Hamish and I up in Sydney, part of our sponsorship with Pro Climber is we're come up here and record head to some of the states, um, around Australia.
[00:00:16] We're coming up in our, uh, bit mini housekeeping. We're going to sa in a few weeks, uh, in April. Uh, so pro climber.com au. If you wanna sign up for the event, it's on a Tuesday night. The dates are all in there now. Ham.
[00:00:30] Hamish: Yep.
[00:00:31] Matt: We've got Dan here.
[00:00:33] Daniel: Yep. Why?
[00:00:34] Matt: Why? Exactly? Why? So Dan's anyone that listens to a podcast, familiar with Air Boss Dan, but we
[00:00:41] Hamish: have, I think it came about because we were gonna get Dan on the podcast and then we realized he was been on twice again and we thought that was a bit boring.
[00:00:46] Daniel: Yeah, it's a very boring,
[00:00:48] Hamish: that's why we pulled in another German. I
[00:00:49] Daniel: find a younger version
[00:00:51] Hamish: and that younger, better looking
[00:00:52] Daniel: version. Yeah.
[00:00:53] Matt: I'm gonna introduce Dan, you are going to introduce our guest today 'cause this is a pre cool guest.
[00:00:58] Daniel: Oh yeah. So [00:01:00] like we, because we talked about like, uh, my carpentry background and I talked about like that's German carpentry has a big tradition and now I met Eric like a week ago and, and he's living like the oldest, one of the oldest tradition, maybe the oldest tradition we have like in carpentry and then trades, trades manship in Germany, which is being a journeyman and being traveled.
[00:01:22] We call it the vaults. And that's why I thought it would be great to have you on here to tell actually what it's about and how does it even fit in modern times, because people see you. It's like 30 degrees, 26 degrees outside. You're sitting here, there's a jacket, long sleeves on, heads on, massive boots on.
[00:01:38] He's got a
[00:01:39] Hamish: dummy.
[00:01:40] Daniel: Yes, exactly. So
[00:01:43] Erik: everything has a story.
[00:01:44] Daniel: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
[00:01:46] Hamish: So, uh, welcome to Australia first. Hey,
[00:01:49] Erik: thank you. And thank you for inviting. I think it's nice to talk about this tradition.
[00:01:53] Hamish: Yeah. And I think it's important. I think it's really good to actually have someone that's not Dan talking about it, who's actually in Yes.
[00:01:59] Matt: [00:02:00] And if you dunno what we're talking about, highly, highly, highly suggest you jump on the video for this one. Yep. YouTube definitely. Uh. So because,
[00:02:08] Hamish: hang on, before you start, Matt, there's probably a lot of people who are listening right now who have been Toto Fest in Germany, or have been to some kind of October Fest somewhere.
[00:02:18] And are probably familiar with what you are wearing right now.
[00:02:21] Daniel: I have to be a bit careful
[00:02:22] Hamish: what
[00:02:22] Daniel: you say.
[00:02:22] Hamish: I, I understand. I'm probably trying, but it's probably not, it's probably not the same, but I, but it's, it feels like it's a very similar kind of, I think
[00:02:30] Erik: I always get asked this question. Ah, is it October 1st?
[00:02:33] Daniel: Yeah, January. It comes together like, because I think talked about in the previous sessions about the, is the second Monday brick layer? Monday on October Fest? Yes. And traditionally all the trades went on the October Fest also with the traditional clothing zone because like. The brickies, the chippies, and everyone that just really showed up in the traditional clothing.
[00:02:51] So this could be the reason why, but actually it has nothing to do with their interests. Right. Okay.
[00:02:56] Matt: So what is a journeyman?
[00:02:57] Erik: Um, a journeyman is, [00:03:00] um, uh, it's a ated, uh, craftman. He's traveling for three years in one day, at least all over the world. But in the first year in the German speaking countries to extend his knowledge in, um, craftsmanship, but also in life.
[00:03:16] And, uh. Yeah, it is, was invented while the middle age, um, in building the CFI worlds. Um, and just the craftman went out of the hometown to, on some new experience and maybe because they don't found work at their hometown.
[00:03:31] Matt: So you're a carpenter is the, the base of what you do?
[00:03:34] Erik: Um, I'm a carpenter, but there are many craft.
[00:03:37] Matt: Yeah.
[00:03:38] Erik: Old, uh, all the old crafts do the journeyman.
[00:03:41] Hamish: I just love that you call it a craft.
[00:03:43] Erik: It's a, was
[00:03:45] Hamish: I just, because we, we don't, you know, we don't do that. It's a trade here. Yeah. I reckon it's a trade difference. That's, so you call it a, like it is such a big difference when I say those two words in my brain.
[00:03:55] Craft trade. Yes. Completely different. Okay.
[00:03:58] Daniel: The trading is more or less just [00:04:00] a chop. You do and craft and ship is actually reporting like love and honor and what you're doing. So really
[00:04:04] Matt: it's love craft is love,
[00:04:05] Hamish: passion.
[00:04:06] Erik: This is the difference. Yeah.
[00:04:08] Daniel: Yeah.
[00:04:08] Matt: So you, you have done your apprenticeship, is that what it's called?
[00:04:13] Apprenticeship? Yes. Yeah. Okay. So you do your apprenticeship. Mm-hmm. You finish that and then you do a year or so in Germany and now you travel.
[00:04:18] Erik: Um, yeah. You do your apprenticeship and after you are graduated you can, um, go to one society. And say, Hey, I would like to do the journeyman years. And then they, uh, look for you if you are fit to this group and if you are, uh, a nice and honorable person.
[00:04:38] And after that, you, um, you depart from your home and, uh, you go for this, uh, for this journey. And, but it is for few years and one day, um,
[00:04:49] Matt: why one day
[00:04:52] Erik: there's another story behind, um, anyway, I will tell you is good. Um, yeah. And then, then you go, [00:05:00] um, you, you go on this journey and in the first year you stay in the German speaking countries because there's much to learn and also to get all to know all the other craftsmen.
[00:05:09] Yeah. All the other journeymen. And after the second year, you are allowed to get abroad. To earn some experience in other countries, how craftsmanship is you've
[00:05:19] Matt: come to Australia and
[00:05:20] Erik: learn, learn what not to
[00:05:21] Matt: do.
[00:05:22] Hamish: Oh, we have a few questions for that part later on.
[00:05:24] Matt: And so when you finish,
[00:05:26] Hamish: why is it three years in one day?
[00:05:27] Erik: Um, yeah. Um, because, um, we do our apprenticeship for three years. Yeah. And, um, in, back in the days, um, you belong to your master of craft, uh, because you, you lived as his house, you belong to his, uh, household. And, um, after you are graduated, you, uh, get free from all your responsibilities to your master. And there's also a big, um, celebration and it's still practiced nowadays,
[00:05:58] Daniel: Uhhuh
[00:05:59] Erik: and after you [00:06:00] are graduated, you also are, are allowed to wear ahead.
[00:06:04] Daniel: Yep.
[00:06:04] Erik: Because, um, as a apprentice you are not allowed because, uh, the head is a symbol for a free man. And after that you have graduated, you've become a free man. And, um, so we want to be one day longer in freedom than we stayed, uh, under the rule of our master.
[00:06:21] Hamish: Wow. So when you say in Australia, you should be wearing a hat.
[00:06:26] Matt: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:06:27] Hamish: You're gonna get sunburn.
[00:06:29] Erik: Okay. So
[00:06:30] Hamish: trust the budding set.
[00:06:31] Matt: So when, so are you in the process of your journeyman or have you finished it? Like, have you done all the training in a sense? Or how does that work?
[00:06:40] Erik: Um, yeah, we have, uh, the apprenticeship. It's also from the state and so on. You go to a school, but you are also in a, uh, in your company where you feel like, where you learn.
[00:06:53] And after that, um, you do the journeyman years if you want to, only for the [00:07:00] experience to extend.
[00:07:01] Hamish: Where are you on that journeyman journey?
[00:07:03] Erik: I'm now almost. Um, um, finished my second year.
[00:07:08] Hamish: Yeah. So you did one year in German speaking, and where were you before that?
[00:07:12] Erik: Um, so after my first day I could leave, uh, out of Germany, I went to Azerbaijan.
[00:07:18] Hamish: Whereabouts?
[00:07:18] Matt: Azerbaijan.
[00:07:19] Erik: Azerbaijan.
[00:07:20] Hamish: Where's that?
[00:07:21] Matt: Uh, Eastern, middle East.
[00:07:22] Hamish: Okay.
[00:07:23] Matt: You watch F1 Azer,
[00:07:24] Erik: Baja Ri Georges next to it. And, um, what were you doing there? I've worked as a potato farmer, actually.
[00:07:32] Hamish: Oh.
[00:07:33] Erik: It was the only job I could found there. Wearing,
[00:07:36] Hamish: wearing, wearing
[00:07:36] Erik: the
[00:07:37] Hamish: same.
[00:07:37] Erik: Yes.
[00:07:38] Hamish: Yeah. Okay. Right. That's
[00:07:40] Erik: funny.
[00:07:40] Yeah. Um,
[00:07:41] Matt: and that's a very cultural difference in Azerbaijan compared to
[00:07:43] Erik: Yeah. And, and nice craftsmanship is not, uh, you cannot find, find there. And sadly, all the roofers are welded and made out of steel, so there was not much work to do for me. Uh, but good
[00:07:57] Matt: potatoes.
[00:07:57] Erik: Yeah, bad potatoes. [00:08:00] For how
[00:08:00] Daniel: long?
[00:08:00] Erik: Um, yeah.
[00:08:01] It was only, um, few weeks, but, um, yeah, was nice. Um. Was also German, uh, farmers there.
[00:08:09] Hamish: Yeah. And then, and then, so you went, um, you did a few weeks there then where to
[00:08:14] Erik: then I went to, um, uh, Georgia, but only short back to, uh, Germany or better to, um, Austria.
[00:08:23] Hamish: Yep.
[00:08:23] Erik: Um, then I've worked there several months again.
[00:08:27] And after this I went last summer to Norway.
[00:08:30] Hamish: Oh, yeah. Cool.
[00:08:31] Erik: And, and they
[00:08:32] Hamish: working in Norway as a, as a carpenter. Yeah.
[00:08:34] Erik: Yes. A this, and this is really a nice story how I found this work. Um, I hitchhiked all the way up to drum here. Yep. From Germany, um, with my camera together. And, um, one day we, um. Slept, uh, on the fiat.
[00:08:51] And then a, a guy, um, took us in his car.
[00:08:55] Hamish: Yeah.
[00:08:55] Erik: And he asked us, Hey, are you looking for work? And, and we said, oh, no, not [00:09:00] really. We just finished our last work. And, um, then he said, Hey, um, I have some nice work for you. Um, we are a group of, uh. Geologists. Yep. Geologists. Yeah. And, um, we, uh, are searching for copper here in the mountains and we need some wooden drill pads on the mountain side.
[00:09:20] Hamish: Yeah.
[00:09:20] Erik: Um, for, um, drilling for copper. And, um, then, um, they said, Hey, we want to, um. Uh, we need this and we really need you as worker. And, uh, so we had a look on the work after this. We said, oh, yes. So I think it's nice. And after that, good money.
[00:09:39] Daniel: Yeah.
[00:09:39] Erik: Yeah. It was good money. And, and they flew in, uh, uh, carpenter.
[00:09:44] He's originally from New Zealand, but lives in Canada. And in Canada. They're really experienced in building such drill pets. And, uh, so we, uh, assisted him and, uh, all the wood was flying up with the, um, with the helicopter and there was a lot of [00:10:00] chainsaw work and, um, really adventurer and we also got heavy.
[00:10:05] Hamish: It sounds amazing.
[00:10:06] Erik: Yeah. I, it was just nice. And in, in the afternoon we sat together with all the, um, other geologists. Yeah. Was the international team is also an Australian. I think you are really experienced in. Mining?
[00:10:19] Hamish: Well, I'm not, I'm personally I'm not, but sure. My, my, my, my uncle was actually a geologist, but Sure.
[00:10:26] Matt: So what
[00:10:26] Erik: happens
[00:10:26] Matt: when
[00:10:26] Erik: you finish
[00:10:27] Matt: your journeyman?
[00:10:28] Erik: Um, or is
[00:10:29] Matt: it never finish?
[00:10:30] Erik: Yes. Um, three
[00:10:31] Matt: years in one day.
[00:10:32] Erik: Three years. In one day. You can extend it if you want to. Um, and at least you and decide when you want to go home.
[00:10:40] Matt: Yeah.
[00:10:40] Erik: Uh, at some point, uh, the other, your camera will tell you, Hey, go home now. I think you, uh, it's also good to settle down at some point, and you decided for yourself, Dan hasn't
[00:10:50] Matt: settled down,
[00:10:52] Hamish: so you don't, I'm not a journeyman, so you don't have to, so if you're doing a journeyman's, it's three years in one day.
[00:10:56] During that three years in one day, it doesn't [00:11:00] necessarily, you don't necessarily have to do carpentry work. It can be any work.
[00:11:04] Erik: It can be every work. Um, yeah. At least you are fault you're living. Yeah. Okay. But, um, of course we are looking for work. You're looking for c work? Yeah, work. Because we want to extend our knowledge.
[00:11:15] Yeah.
[00:11:16] Daniel: Yes. That's, I was going to say, yeah.
[00:11:17] Erik: Mm-hmm.
[00:11:17] Daniel: Yeah. I think like quickly, because Norway, because I still would like, I think it's interesting how we actually ended up here. So like after Norway, how did you Yeah. Story. Yeah. Why? Yeah.
[00:11:27] Erik: Yeah. Because
[00:11:28] Daniel: then I have heaps of questions for you.
[00:11:29] Erik: Yeah. Then I went back to Germany.
[00:11:32] Um, I've worked there, um, some months. Um, and after that I made the plan with some ADEs to go to Southeast East Asia.
[00:11:41] Daniel: Yep.
[00:11:41] Erik: So we took the plane to, um, Thailand and had some, ah,
[00:11:46] Matt: this is going,
[00:11:48] Erik: had some nice, um, time there. And, uh,
[00:11:52] Matt: whereabouts in Thailand?
[00:11:53] Erik: Hmm.
[00:11:54] Matt: Whereabouts in Thailand?
[00:11:55] Erik: Um, different parts. So in the north of Thailand, this was also really nice.
[00:11:59] Uh, [00:12:00] I've ended up in a monastery and built a stair for the monks there. Um, and, um, this is cool. Then on the islands in the south and all over Thailand, something like this. And then I've went to Lao and, uh, Whitlam, and then I've, uh, recognized, oh, I don't have much money anymore. And so I decided to come to Australia because I think.
[00:12:21] Here's a nice place for,
[00:12:22] Hamish: and
[00:12:22] Erik: how long have you been in Australia
[00:12:24] Hamish: now?
[00:12:24] Erik: Um, three weeks. Three something.
[00:12:26] Matt: And you are young, you're not,
[00:12:28] Erik: I'm 25.
[00:12:29] Matt: Yeah, I think that's really good context. Um, for, for listeners now, so you arrive in Australia, so Dan told me you didn't have a phone originally.
[00:12:38] Erik: Yes.
[00:12:39] Matt: Yeah. So you typically don't operate with a phone.
[00:12:42] Is that, that, was that what you were sort of saying? You just, that's not part of what you guys do as a journeyman, it's just very old school ways of communication.
[00:12:50] Erik: Mm. Yeah. Um, we are not allowed to have a phone because, um, it is, we want to live at the moment. And also if you don't have a mobile [00:13:00] phone, you get in touch with the people because you have to ask for the way and, um.
[00:13:06] Also, you don't plan too many things, so you often get, uh, surprised by coincidence.
[00:13:13] Matt: So how, how
[00:13:13] Erik: do you communicate back home? This is how I met Daniel at least.
[00:13:17] Matt: So how do you communicate with back home? Do you just email or?
[00:13:20] Erik: Sometimes I write a email, yeah. Or I ask somebody if I can borrow the phone or I write postcards.
[00:13:27] Oh,
[00:13:29] Daniel: the thing is like, that's where I think I just wanna jump in because like
[00:13:32] Matt: my apprentice is listening. No phones on site.
[00:13:35] Daniel: Oh man. I think no phones as a tune for example's. Giving me the shits like, but it's like no phones in general like turn off your phone and focus on what you're doing at the moment.
[00:13:43] But it's very hard for me to, I thing. It's like I just want to get on it because you maybe ask like, because. Eric is talking about the comrades. And so when we talk about the tradition, like he's actually talking about the guilds. Um, so the guilds actually really started like in the 12 hundreds as in medieval times.[00:14:00]
[00:14:00] And they had different periods and you can trust if I'm wrong, but I did also my own research a bit. So it was organized really. So the carpenters and all the other trades that actually like stick together and work together and also. Actually integrate, like the education systems we talk about back 12 hundreds and the big changes have been like, okay, to stick together that at some point there have been points where they really protect the area.
[00:14:23] So they didn't have any outsider. In, in some parts I say like there was a bit of a corruption tool, which is, um, difficult. So specifically in the industrial, um. Revolution. This is then in the 18 hundreds, this is actually when the guild started to open up and relax a little bit. It got more open.
[00:14:39] Erik: They also got a little bit forbidden.
[00:14:41] So there was a rule against this because they built such, um, yeah, big, uh, they had too much power.
[00:14:49] Daniel: Yeah. Yes, exactly. And the thing is like, luckily we, they stick with, uh, the guild, stick with the traditions. And the funny thing is also like, if you think back, because. I think also [00:15:00] we have romanticizes a lot.
[00:15:01] And specifically if you look back like hundreds of years back, you had kids and the kids have been most times more like, like a burden. 'cause you had to feed them. People haven't had a lot of food money anyway. So that means kind of the best thing. What could happen to you as a parent if you actually found a master carpenter or say, okay, we're gonna take care of your son.
[00:15:20] Um, 'cause it was very unlikely it was a daughter, I guess. So, um, it means kind of you as a parent. Your child has a future if you're in the guild because it's, it's a connection for a lifetime. It's a connection around the world. So maybe, of course, like, that's what I'm gonna say in a second. I'll come back to you.
[00:15:37] There are rules which I want to talk
[00:15:39] Matt: about. Oh, that I was gonna say, what are the rules?
[00:15:40] Erik: Yes. At first there's one difference as, so there's one gud for masters, and then our guild, it's only for the journeyman, for the tradesman. Um, because we are also, we always wear a counterpart to the mastercraft.
[00:15:55] Because, um, they stayed in their city and, um, did all the [00:16:00] work and also they set the prize and how many masters of craft are in one city. But, and the, the journeyman, they always traveled around after they finished. Uh, and, and so if maybe one, uh, a few masters didn't behave good, uh, or treat, treat them good, the journeyman, then they just left and said, Hey, nobody works at this city anymore.
[00:16:23] Yeah. So, um, yeah, this is also like a little bit, um, we are something like the, uh, the founders of the unions and so on. Yeah,
[00:16:34] Daniel: that's also like back to pick your point up is kind of like back then they had like, it wasn't like a health insurance, but like hundreds and hundreds of years ago if you actually had a work injury, it was actually part also to take care of your, if your wound or comrade or if you couldn't work anymore or if you die.
[00:16:50] Because back then it was pretty normal that you actually die inside. So it means actually the guild and the common actually took care of the family too. So it was also part we talk about hundreds of years ago where actually everyone was thousand just trying. [00:17:00] Exact thousand. Yeah. So I think like that's part, that's why the history is so important.
[00:17:06] That's why I think it's probably awesome, but part of the history is still continuous. Can I
[00:17:09] Matt: ask, do you regret not doing your journeyman?
[00:17:11] Daniel: Yeah, of course.
[00:17:11] Matt: Okay.
[00:17:12] Daniel: But to be honest, I wasn't brave enough because as I said, like it's getting romanticized and I was always, was a bit afraid of it because like spending three years by yourself alone, you have to really, you have to be clean with yourself to really, like, that's why I have such a respect for Eric doing it because I think it's not easy.
[00:17:28] Matt: You allowed, are you allowed to go home?
[00:17:30] Erik: Um, no, I don't.
[00:17:31] Daniel: 50 kilometers radius.
[00:17:32] Erik: Yeah.
[00:17:33] Daniel: It's the maximum, uh, clear, closest distance.
[00:17:36] Erik: Yeah.
[00:17:36] Matt: So let's, even, even for like a family reason or an emergency,
[00:17:39] Erik: um, yeah, there's an exception. Yeah, because they're recession. If there's an, uh, if somebody dies of your family, you are allowed to go back to your hometown, but only if another camera rat, um, joins you and so comes with you.
[00:17:53] So he has a look at you afterwards. Get back again.
[00:17:56] Hamish: Before we, before we jump onto other questions, is, [00:18:00] is carpentry or master carpentry something that, um, your, your dad or mom or or grand family your grandfather did, or is it it something you've decided to do?
[00:18:11] Erik: No. Um, there's no one I'm,
[00:18:14] Hamish: yeah. Okay.
[00:18:14] Erik: And the first carpenter and, and my uncle Yep.
[00:18:17] Is a carpenter. Yeah. Yep. But yeah, so I decided for me, I want to do the journey menus, so,
[00:18:24] Hamish: yeah. Okay.
[00:18:25] Matt: I'm fascinated right now. Me too. I, I, I thing get passion
[00:18:28] Hamish: like this at all. Intriguing. Okay. And exciting. Like, you, you kind of almost think it, it's almost like when I shouldn't be comparing it to a Mormon mission, but it almost is like a mission.
[00:18:39] That, you know, some people go and do, but your, your mission is to go out and get better and learn and experience the world and become a master carpenter.
[00:18:47] Daniel: So
[00:18:48] Erik: what are the rules? Uh, the rules. Um, we are not allowed to be married, uh, have any children because then you have responsibilities. We [00:19:00] also are not allowed to have any paying debts.
[00:19:03] Um, yeah. Also because of responsibilities, you cannot do this journey and we have to be under 30.
[00:19:10] Matt: So this is during the journey.
[00:19:12] Erik: During the journey. Okay. Yeah. Can, you, can, can and Yeah, for sure. You can get married past.
[00:19:16] Matt: You can get married past, yeah. Yeah. I can. Yeah. I was like, I was
[00:19:19] Erik: like, I went to build a family.
[00:19:20] Hamish: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Can is, can women do it?
[00:19:23] Erik: Um, yeah, they can. Not in our society.
[00:19:26] Hamish: Yeah.
[00:19:26] Erik: But, uh, there are different societies. Yeah.
[00:19:29] Hamish: When you say societies, you are the guilt. The guild. Yeah. Okay. Your particular guild. Yeah. Yeah,
[00:19:34] Erik: yeah.
[00:19:34] Hamish: Okay, cool.
[00:19:35] Matt: So what, so you can't get married, can't have kids under 30. That's an interesting, I would've thought that like if you're 40 and you're fit healthy, is there exceptions to that?
[00:19:44] Erik: Um,
[00:19:46] Daniel: I think a lot girls who came, because I met a few, they actually definitely have been over 40 and still over over 40. Yeah.
[00:19:52] Erik: Yeah. Um, you have to begin your journey before you turn 30.
[00:19:56] Matt: Yep.
[00:19:56] Erik: And of course if you are, um, if you are on [00:20:00] this, on this journey, you can do it longer. But at some point, uh, your cameras will tell you, Hey, go home now.
[00:20:06] Because, uh, at some, at some point, a different time begins where you maybe should not travel like me anymore.
[00:20:15] Hamish: Yeah.
[00:20:15] Erik: To build something. Yeah.
[00:20:17] Matt: Yeah. So, so are there any other major rules?
[00:20:19] Erik: Um. Yeah. Um, if you get to a city, you always have to say hello to the city society. So there are bars and restaurants all over the world.
[00:20:31] And yeah, you get there and, and then you, uh, get to know the carpenters who live there. Maybe they settle down, especially here in Sydney. There are a few they settle down here in Australia. And, um, so there are some meetings. Yep. And, uh, we meet up to do our stuff. And, um, yeah, this is how it works. It's, uh, also a big connection.
[00:20:53] Hamish: And right now, are there other, you talk about comrades or are there, have you got your other comrades here now?
[00:20:59] Erik: Um, yeah, [00:21:00] there's one working in Bondi.
[00:21:02] Hamish: Yep.
[00:21:02] Erik: Um, another one is in Brisbane and there are some. I think they've just came in from Perth.
[00:21:10] Hamish: Well, I'll tell
[00:21:10] Erik: you what if, where they're,
[00:21:11] Hamish: if you ever wanna come down to Melbourne?
[00:21:13] Erik: No, no,
[00:21:13] Matt: that's
[00:21:14] Hamish: my, no, no, no. I'll give you my phone.
[00:21:15] Daniel: I'll give you my number. Talk about this later. Make it as a big note, because I actually wanna pick on this topic. Yeah. So keep going. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:21:22] Matt: So you've come to Australia. What are your thoughts on Australian construction?
[00:21:28] Hamish: I almost think it's unfair now because he's working on Stefan's projects.
[00:21:31] No, this is even better. Yeah. Well, bla Blaze. Blaze is a high performance passive house, but does beautiful stuff. I'd love to get him on like a metric on site or something.
[00:21:39] Matt: Maybe that No, but no, but like, this is, he's jumped into the highest form of building we have here.
[00:21:45] Hamish: Oh, that's a good point actually.
[00:21:46] Yeah. '
[00:21:47] Daniel: cause like last, last Monday, we caught up, uh, as Eric and I. And you, your hands didn't look as normal. So what has,
[00:21:55] Matt: you've got glue on your hands. I thought German C would be clean.
[00:21:58] Daniel: Yeah,
[00:21:59] Erik: yeah. Um, [00:22:00] what I've recognized here is much with glue. Uh, so you, every we wood is glued together. Uh, um, so, um, I don't like this way, um, because also if something doesn't fit, you have to get it out and then everything is just a big mess.
[00:22:16] But, um. Um, so I only work now two days at, uh, my new job. So, uh, I don't know, um, much how it works. Yeah. But, uh, of course there is a difference to German buildings. So
[00:22:29] Matt: what have you noticed?
[00:22:31] Erik: Um, uh, for, um, a lot is made by Western
[00:22:34] Matt: Yeah.
[00:22:34] Erik: And shoot together. Um, also the, you use Ner Wood. Yeah. Ner Timber.
[00:22:41] Matt: Yep.
[00:22:42] Erik: Um.
[00:22:43] Yeah. Uh, it is a lot of commercial work. Um, really new buildings. Um, I think, uh, yeah, we also have this framework, uh, buildings. They are, um, they get, we get more used to it and so on, but [00:23:00] there are also a lot of construction work. And so, um, uh, if you are at the company, you maybe do both. You do the, uh. The framework housing or the construction work order, um, restoration work.
[00:23:14] Matt: So what's wrong with a nail gun?
[00:23:16] Erik: Um, yeah, I am, I can, it's for me is just don't, uh, don't, seems like so solid and also like, uh, it's not so removable. So, yeah, for me, just in my point of view, it seems better to use a screw. Or to make some wooden, um, uh, uh, connections and, um, uh, but, uh, yeah, maybe we are really serious in this point of,
[00:23:45] Daniel: so how was it for you when you come on site and the first time you actually realize, oh, they're actually frame on site.
[00:23:50] You don't prefab like in the warehouse or in the workshop? 'cause like in Germany, like what your previous job, uh, what you did, what you also talk about what you did previously, but we always [00:24:00] prefab in our company and then we delivered on site and then we actually just erected on site. And here, like the,
[00:24:08] Erik: yeah, I hate, um, it's crazy how fast it goes.
[00:24:11] I think, uh, here, um, I think the Australian way of building, it's just, um, um, the, yeah, it's really, um, good. Um, because, uh, at least you, um, it's finished early and uh, also, um, you make the most of it. Uh, so, um. Maybe you don't have the, the same quality, but um,
[00:24:33] maybe
[00:24:33] Erik: we
[00:24:33] Matt: don't.
[00:24:35] Erik: But, uh, at least, uh, um, you, you can live in these houses and, uh, I think pretty well.
[00:24:42] And, um, after, and I think it's another way of thinking. In Germany, we are also so passionate in our work because, uh, I think it's also the history. We have this old and these cold winters. And we cannot do anything else, um, to be clean in our craft and so on. And [00:25:00] here you have the beach, and here you can go to, uh, to the beach after work.
[00:25:04] And so I think this is, do you wear this outfit to the
[00:25:06] Daniel: beach?
[00:25:07] Erik: Um, sometimes, but of course I teach you pants.
[00:25:10] Hamish: And, and do you have to wear this all the time? Is that part of the. The mission that you're on? Well, not mission, no. You're, you're he's
[00:25:17] Daniel: a missionary. Yes.
[00:25:18] Hamish: Nice. Now, is it part, is it part of your, the rules that you've gotta wear this all the time?
[00:25:23] Erik: Yeah.
[00:25:23] Hamish: And then when can you take it off?
[00:25:25] Erik: Um, at home.
[00:25:26] Hamish: And then what about Saturdays and Sundays when you're not working? Can you be in free dress?
[00:25:30] Erik: No, I don't.
[00:25:32] Hamish: Oh,
[00:25:32] Erik: wow. Okay. So do you
[00:25:33] Matt: have just like a few of the same thing?
[00:25:35] Erik: Um, I have, I have one closing for, um, for traveling and one for working. Uh, and, uh, of course some.
[00:25:44] Several shots.
[00:25:45] Daniel: So how, how big is your luggage?
[00:25:46] Erik: Um, yeah, it's something like this. No, it's a big roll.
[00:25:52] Daniel: It's just a bundle. So we just, he's not traveling with a backpack. But you don't have a walking stick, isn't it?
[00:25:58] Erik: Um, yeah, I leave [00:26:00] mine in Germany because I was worried that the And the Australian border Patrol, yeah, they'd
[00:26:05] Daniel: probably take it up.
[00:26:05] Take
[00:26:05] Erik: it.
[00:26:06] Daniel: So usually you actually have a walking stick and. If it's okay to ask, but what's all your, in your luggage?
[00:26:12] Erik: Um, I have my tools inside. Um, what tools? Basic tools, hand tools and so on. And,
[00:26:18] Daniel: um, well be more precise because like, I think like hand tools here will be a skill in your gon That's what I'm asking.
[00:26:24] Erik: Um, I have a hammer then. Um, uh, angle I made for myself. Um, with two angles you can set, um, then a chisel, um, uh, yeah, a, a saw. Um, yeah, of course. Knife and some measurement, um, working tools and so on. Like
[00:26:44] Matt: a hand saw.
[00:26:45] Erik: A hand saw, yeah. Yeah.
[00:26:47] Hamish: And you keep that sharp yourself. You sharp sharpen it.
[00:26:50] Erik: Oh, yeah,
[00:26:51] Hamish: yeah, yeah.
[00:26:51] Yeah.
[00:26:51] Erik: I do.
[00:26:53] Matt: And that's it.
[00:26:53] Erik: That's, that's it. Yeah.
[00:26:55] Matt: And you can build anything with that. Or like obviously when you're saying you screw stuff at the [00:27:00] moment, you're relying on using the trades on site, their tools.
[00:27:02] Erik: Yeah.
[00:27:02] Matt: But I'm assuming you're Spectrum more than anyone else.
[00:27:05] Erik: Yeah, I am. Uh, I'm pretty happy to get my, uh, tools, uh, now.
[00:27:09] Um, because with, with this basic tools, I cannot do everything. And also not so fast.
[00:27:14] Daniel: But you have been pretty happy in, in Asia when you build the stairs, isn't
[00:27:18] Erik: it? Oh yeah. I, I've been happy because in the Southeast Asia, um, you get some tools, but uh, there are worse. Um, there I was. And, um. Yeah, so I was happy to have my s so
[00:27:33] Matt: working in that in Southeast Asia must be hot and humid.
[00:27:36] Erik: Yes.
[00:27:39] Daniel: Yeah. So, and by the way, because some guys might think like, oh, he's wearing the same clothes. No, it's not smelling here. So like,
[00:27:46] Matt: no, it's definitely
[00:27:46] Daniel: not. He's still like,
[00:27:47] Matt: and I'm next to Dan too. Thank you.
[00:27:49] Daniel: Yeah. I might be smelly, but so I,
[00:27:51] Hamish: I dunno what it's like here in Sydney, but. There's some dickheads that work in construction and have any, has anyone been an [00:28:00] idiot, like a dick or, or rude to you from, for wearing, she just worked two days to fuck.
[00:28:04] Yeah. Okay.
[00:28:05] Erik: Uh, I
[00:28:05] Hamish: guess I'm tired. I mean, I wouldn't, I wouldn't think that the Stefan's team would be like that at all. But, but what about just the general population, you know, walking down the street? Now,
[00:28:14] Erik: uh, crazy friendly. So, uh, yeah.
[00:28:17] Hamish: Awesome.
[00:28:17] Erik: So I'm, so I'm happy to
[00:28:18] Hamish: hear that.
[00:28:19] Erik: This, this is really nice. So the Australians, they are, um, you have just a chat at the bus and they're really happy and, um, yeah.
[00:28:28] You, you feel like that they have, um, good life here.
[00:28:32] Daniel: Yeah. Country. I feel happy talking to. Like, I'm really, I'm really enjoying this conversation, actually.
[00:28:36] This
[00:28:36] Matt: is, I know about you, but I feel like
[00:28:39] Daniel: I feel inspired. Yeah. Talk, talk about the coincidence, how we met. It's too funny. Like,
[00:28:45] Matt: do we really wanna know?
[00:28:47] Daniel: Yeah.
[00:28:47] Matt: At 3:00 AM in the morning.
[00:28:49] Erik: Oh, no, no. Um, hey, sometimes you, uh, in, on this journey, many years, you have this habit to, um, you want. Not to [00:29:00] plan too many things, and this is how I've, uh, I've got here and, um, I've, um, been in, um, Sydney and lived in this hostel and I was looking for work, but I, uh, don't want to write any emails to companies or sign up.
[00:29:14] It's indeed or what people usually do. Because I thought, hey, maybe I will find something else. And um, then, um, I doesn't work that good and I was a little bit, oh, maybe I have to write some emails to companies. And, uh, then I went dancing, um, like, uh, bachata dancing. Yeah.
[00:29:35] Matt: Dan was showing me some video last night in dancing.
[00:29:39] Daniel: The funny thing is most people don't know what bachata is. People know salsa but don't know what bachata is, and it's like not very common, specifically from Germany. No one knows what I thought he was talking about
[00:29:48] Matt: there. Barat
[00:29:49] Daniel: of
[00:29:49] cheese
[00:29:49] Matt: when we first,
[00:29:52] Daniel: no, and I didn't go, of course, I danced by China years back and I just started Monday before, so I really want to get back into it.
[00:29:59] So I hadn't [00:30:00] danced for four years, and so I said, because I actually enjoyed and missed it. And now I went for the first class where intermediate class then was dancing and I was looking in the corner and I just saw Eric sitting there. And then you're in this Latin dance. Mindsets. And then I saw like Eric then in his traditional company, clothings, and I couldn't get it together like for a half a minute minute because like these two worlds colliding maybe it into a
[00:30:23] Erik: dancing outfit.
[00:30:25] Matt: Were you like, yeah. Were you, you expecting to find love with the dancing, but it's a different kind of
[00:30:29] Daniel: love. Exactly. So I had to change your mindsets, so. So less flirting, more technically? No.
[00:30:34] Matt: Did he flirt out with you? Hmm. Did he flirt with you? For sure.
[00:30:39] Erik: He, he came, um, uh, to me and said, Hey, it's so nice to see you.
[00:30:43] Um, do you want to come to, uh, my office tomorrow to Pro Climber? And I know this,
[00:30:49] Matt: my office,
[00:30:49] Erik: my office. And I, and I was so happy to meet, uh, then, uh, because. Uh, then, uh, you, this is our, all the thing about this journey, what [00:31:00] I love so much about it, because you meet people and I'm so in love with coincidence because everything changed to the good after this point.
[00:31:08] And then, um, talk to, uh, to Stefan and, um, now I found work and also a place to live.
[00:31:16] Daniel: Yeah. So things that we talked about, uh, work should, we should be possible. Let me know when, what, what. I sent met immediately a message straight after the dancing and met. We need to get him on the podcast when you're in Sydney.
[00:31:27] 'cause I think it's a great story.
[00:31:28] Matt: I just love that you said there's just something romantic about this.
[00:31:31] Daniel: Yeah. Was a bit of romance. Yeah.
[00:31:33] Erik: And romance while dancing.
[00:31:35] Daniel: And funny enough is also, so like, um, Eric also like work with Proclaimer Pros before, funny enough in Germany. Yeah. He knows one of the Proclaimer employees in Germany because the trade school where he went to is maybe the trade school where Proclaim is the most active with and.
[00:31:50] So it's like so many crossovers, which is super fun.
[00:31:53] Erik: And also a camera rat is working at this company.
[00:31:55] Daniel: Oh yeah, you told me. Yeah.
[00:31:57] Hamish: And how, how do you, what do you think about um, [00:32:00] uh, you know, being from Germany and then coming to Australia and then I guess just the connection with Dan finding other German who works for a German owned company.
[00:32:10] And you know, we're a couple of Australians who just love, like, did you expect this to happen? Like, because it, it seems like everything's kind of just dropping into place here.
[00:32:21] Erik: No, I didn't expect that. This, yeah. Okay. That it fits so well.
[00:32:25] Hamish: I mean, I've, I've traveled a lot. I spent four years traveling when, when I finished university.
[00:32:28] And it is funny, like everything's quite like se serendipitous with how it sort of fits together. And you know, this leads to that, to that, to that. And this is just, it brings back memories of like what happened to me when I was traveling as a younger kid. Which is probably why I'm enjoying the conversation so much.
[00:32:44] Matt: I think this conversation is making me feel happy.
[00:32:45] Hamish: Yeah. Yeah. That's
[00:32:46] Erik: good. Yeah. Hey, this is also a word where the Canadian carpenter or the Canadian geology told me serendipity and it fits so well. Yeah, totally. And I don't think we have such a good fitting word in [00:33:00] German.
[00:33:00] Hamish: Ah, okay.
[00:33:00] Erik: Yeah. But, uh, this is, uh,
[00:33:02] Hamish: yeah.
[00:33:02] Erik: So how I, I, yeah. I enjoy it so much.
[00:33:06] Hamish: Yeah. Well, generally when you come down to Melbourne. And come and work for me. These warmer clothes are gonna be a lot better in winter. Oh, it gets very, it gets very cold down in Melbourne or Tazy. So Tazy,
[00:33:16] Matt: what annoys you most about the way Germans work?
[00:33:20] Erik: Um, like, uh, sometimes it's too serious, uh, that, um, you also were of the working habits, um, yeah.
[00:33:35] Uh, then that, uh, also you can get, uh, maybe called on the weekend and so on. And for me, and now it's okay because I don't have a phone, but, uh, sometimes we are too serious in this. Yeah,
[00:33:48] Daniel: yeah. The tone where, how we work, uh, talk to each other a different one too.
[00:33:53] Erik: Oh yeah, I think so too. Yeah. As in like, it was more comfortable
[00:33:57] Daniel: in my apprenticeship, it was normal at.
[00:33:59] My boss was [00:34:00] throwing a piece of timber at me.
[00:34:01] Matt: That was back in the day with us too.
[00:34:03] Daniel: Yeah.
[00:34:03] Erik: Yeah.
[00:34:04] Daniel: So yeah, I mean there's, there's a part of me that kind of thinks that, oh, but I, I'll
[00:34:11] Matt: say, I think there's something romantic about that too.
[00:34:14] Hamish: No, I just,
[00:34:15] Daniel: I
[00:34:15] Hamish: just actually think that there's, there's probably an element of maybe we should.
[00:34:20] Be a little bit more committed, man. I'm, I'm trying to find the right
[00:34:24] Matt: words, not throw stuff at, but my expectation is the way that Eric presents himself to a project and the way that the passion and the, the way we talk about craft and romanticizing carpentry should be what is expected.
[00:34:36] Hamish: And, and I think that you and I are pretty lucky with our team that they're committed because obviously the, how we portray portray our businesses, you know, the world, my
[00:34:43] Matt: standard's just lifted.
[00:34:44] I'm gonna be honestly, like, I know Dave listens this and the rest of my team like. Th this is how you should be holding yourself.
[00:34:51] Hamish: Yep. Um, we, we don't have a huge amount of time, but I wanna know about the dummy.
[00:34:56] Erik: Okay.
[00:34:56] Hamish: So Eric's Eric in can, I don't know. Yeah. Eric's got a dummy [00:35:00] like attached to the inside of his jacket to shut
[00:35:02] Matt: down.
[00:35:02] It's to shut Dan up when he won't stop
[00:35:04] Erik: in. Hey, in our society, it's just a funny society. All the carpenters doing the same. And, uh, we love to making joke and jokes and so on. Um, yeah. This, uh, is because, um, in the beginning of your journey as your departure from your hometown. Um, you get to the sign, uh, of the exit of your village and, um, all the carpenters are working, walking in one line and do some funny stuff and, uh, stopping the cars and so on.
[00:35:38] And then you, uh, so. Uh, stand together in one circle and you tell each other stories and jokes you experience on this journey. And, uh, also it's nice you get invited of the habits and how it works. And then at this journey, and then my mother, my mother was, uh, asked to come to the circle and [00:36:00] tell a story about my childhood and she told them, yeah, Eric, um, used to wear, um, 10 dummies.
[00:36:09] Dummies.
[00:36:10] Hamish: Yeah. Yeah. Dummies. Yep.
[00:36:11] Erik: On, on his fingers. And one in, in, in his mouth. Otherwise he couldn't sleep. And then all the other couples, uh, laughed. And, uh, one said, oh, um, sli the, that's how we call dummy in Germany. That's your name now for three years. In one day. So they call me. Everybody calls me.
[00:36:31] Daniel: How do you spell?
[00:36:32] Erik: It's, it's
[00:36:32] Daniel: S-C-H-S-C-H. Yep. NU. LLI.
[00:36:37] Erik: Yeah, so that's my nickname,
[00:36:39] Hamish: Nui. So what's next?
[00:36:40] Erik: And, and then, um, um, some other carpenters, um, uh, said, Hey, if you wear a nui at your jacket for three years, in one day we give you 100 liters. And I said, yes, of course.
[00:36:52] Hamish: 100 liters. Of what? Beer? Beer. Beer.
[00:36:54] Erik: Of course. What else?
[00:36:56] Matt: Um, what's next?
[00:36:58] Erik: Um, next
[00:36:59] Hamish: [00:37:00] he's coming to Melbourne to work for me's. Next
[00:37:02] Erik: maybe? Yeah,
[00:37:03] Hamish: like if
[00:37:03] Matt: you come to Melbourne, like, I know Hay, just flick, flick, flick between the
[00:37:06] Daniel: two.
[00:37:06] Matt: I, I, I would
[00:37:06] Daniel: love the still some logistic. Logistical issues. Um, he also needs, uh, his a d eight days so he can actually apply for a second year visa. Ah, he's gonna
[00:37:17] Matt: stay with one, carpent, with one to
[00:37:20] Daniel: No, we just, he has to do some remote, uh, work, which of course can be carpentry.
[00:37:24] Um, but it has to be fulfilled, has to be in certain zip codes in Australia.
[00:37:29] Matt: Yeah.
[00:37:29] Daniel: And so that's why,
[00:37:31] Matt: but you'd be able to help find that.
[00:37:33] Daniel: I think you have a way better reach than me.
[00:37:34] Matt: Yeah. Okay.
[00:37:35] Daniel: I have to see. Yeah.
[00:37:36] Matt: So let's maybe get this podcast out early. So if you're listening. And you are in a certain area that is enabling carpenters to part of this legislation, reach out to us and we'll try our best to connect you with Eric.
[00:37:49] Hamish: Where, where are those places though?
[00:37:51] Matt: They're,
[00:37:51] Daniel: I find on the government
[00:37:52] Matt: website. Yeah, they're like rural. Rural,
[00:37:53] Hamish: okay. Yeah. Cool. It's not as bad, actually, to be honest. Yeah, I It's a massive
[00:37:57] Matt: can we Architecture, she's building her house right [00:38:00] now and she's rural.
[00:38:01] Hamish: Oh yeah, Sarah.
[00:38:01] Daniel: Well, maybe the guys in Tessie too, to be honest.
[00:38:03] It could be like, or
[00:38:05] Matt: that's,
[00:38:06] Daniel: that's real and it's pretty beautiful
[00:38:07] Matt: to Matt. Matt. Yeah. You very much. I, I would love it. I would love, I feel I'd love the opportunity for you to come work on our site, so even just a week just to teach. I just,
[00:38:15] Daniel: Rory would love you.
[00:38:16] Matt: Yeah. I just, my team just to learn
[00:38:19] Hamish: like, oh, you're doing it right
[00:38:20] Matt: perfectly.
[00:38:21] I don't have to. Yeah. Um, what's the, what's the goal like in 10 years, what is the, where do you wanna be?
[00:38:27] Erik: Mm. For me. Yeah. Having a family. Yeah. And a nice house somewhere. I dunno where I settled on until now. Um,
[00:38:38] Matt: back in Germany. Do you think that's where you'll go back to or you, and you don't really care?
[00:38:41] Erik: I dunno yet, but, um, I like Germany, of course.
[00:38:44] You know,
[00:38:45] Matt: ji's expensive.
[00:38:46] Erik: Uh, yeah, maybe, uh, but I dunno where I end up. This is also what I wants. Maybe master
[00:38:53] the
[00:38:53] Daniel: carpenter.
[00:38:54] Erik: Yeah. Um, and, and so yeah. I'm so happy for the experience. I, I [00:39:00] know.
[00:39:00] Matt: So you're doing your journey, Luke, I might jump back and maybe I've missed something here.
[00:39:03] Daniel: Yes. What I just wanted to quickly add, he's living in the present.
[00:39:07] 'cause you ask him what's happening in 10 years. Yeah, I know. That's why. But I know,
[00:39:10] Matt: but that's why I wanted to ask the question. But, so ultimately at the end of the, you become a master carpenter.
[00:39:16] Erik: Um, I don't know. Maybe
[00:39:19] Daniel: it's not a finishing your journey, man, does mean you're master carbon. One thing has nothing to do with the other.
[00:39:24] Yeah. So there are three stages, like in, in the traditional carbon things. So you do your apprenticeship, you finish it. Then you'd be a journeyman and then you finish it and then you work for three years again, and then you can apply to be a master carpenter. Yeah. So these days, more or less, everyone can do it, but back then actually the guilt decided, do we need a master carpenter in this area?
[00:39:42] So you had to apply for it and then you had to approve it. You had to be well connected.
[00:39:45] Erik: And also if you, uh, want to become a master of your craft, you had to do the years and one day of, um, the experience of the journeyman years. Otherwise you aren't allowed to do it.
[00:39:57] Hamish: And do you know,
[00:39:57] Erik: I or you have to do some, several, I think [00:40:00] seven years of work experience could,
[00:40:01] Hamish: if you think about it, um, I, it's pretty brilliant actually.
[00:40:05] Like I went and traveled for three or four years when I'd finished university. And it wasn't until then that I actually felt settled. Like I felt like I was ready to come home. And I think this is kind of doing the same thing. You're doing your apprenticeship, go and travel the world and then come back and settle there.
[00:40:20] Matt: So when, if you want to do a master carpentry. Who do you, do you still travel or you go back to Germany to work with a master carpenter?
[00:40:27] Hamish: You go to school.
[00:40:28] Erik: Mm.
[00:40:28] Matt: So so it's not actually on site, it's at school.
[00:40:30] Erik: It's, it's a, it is an extra course you have to sign up for. Then you will become a master of draft.
[00:40:38] Matt: And then when you get that, what changes? You just, uh, known as the.
[00:40:43] Erik: Um, a, a again, I I didn't get it.
[00:40:46] Matt: Yeah. So when, yeah. Do you wanna ask it?
[00:40:47] Daniel: Yeah. Yeah. So you just say what, when you go back, you go to school mm-hmm. Your master carpenter. What changes being before and after? Like, do you have more responsibilities?
[00:40:56] Ah, did you actually learn anything? Or the, just a title you buy or,
[00:40:59] Erik: [00:41:00] yeah. Um, I think you, um, you learn much at a school. Um, of course also learn some business working and, uh. How do, do the, all the housekeeping of your business company. Of your business. Yep. And, um, also you own some new, um, craftsman techniques.
[00:41:21] Hamish: Yep.
[00:41:21] Erik: Um, and you can, you can,
[00:41:23] Hamish: you can start a business then, can't you? Yes. Success.
[00:41:25] Erik: Yes. And without this, um, you can start a business, but you cannot call yourself like a carpentry, uh, uh, business.
[00:41:33] Hamish: Right. And, and I think you were telling me when people do get their master carpentry. Title and then start their business.
[00:41:40] It's usually their name.
[00:41:42] Daniel: Ah, yeah. It's like pretty common in Germany that actually the, our business or carpentry businesses or joinery, they have the family name. Yeah. And yeah, I keep saying in normal presentations, and it's always quite interesting to see the feedback. They say like, actually the companies have the family name, which means kind of you have actually.
[00:41:59] [00:42:00] Responsibility to your family name because you can't trust stuff off building sites. You got it. Your family name,
[00:42:04] Hamish: you got it right
[00:42:04] Matt: after you canned me before.
[00:42:06] Daniel: I just wanna summarize, like with a master c you talked about like a while back in a different episode, but, um, like a master carpenter space. Okay.
[00:42:13] Go back to school at a master carpenter and construction engineers. I went two years fulltime back to school and, but the master carpenter has like four parts. The, the practical part, so it means kind of you, you really have like high, the practical part, you have the. Theoretical parts. So you really need to all know all the techniques about building physics and bits and pieces.
[00:42:32] Then you have how to be a trainer, trainer part, and then the business parts and you have to fulfill all four of them. 'cause you're also not allowed to have apprentice if you're not a master carpenter. Wow. So that's part of it.
[00:42:42] Hamish: I I would love to continue this conversation, but we have a plane to catch. So ask him for his
[00:42:48] Daniel: earring.
[00:42:49] Hamish: Uh,
[00:42:49] Erik: yeah.
[00:42:51] Hamish: What a need. His earing.
[00:42:52] Daniel: Yeah, he has an earring.
[00:42:54] Hamish: What bad? His earring?
[00:42:54] Daniel: Yeah. Just how got there.
[00:42:56] Erik: Yeah. This is, uh, also what you said. Um, of [00:43:00] course our society, uh, looks after us if we die. Um, but, uh, um, this, um, the, the reason we all wear a earring is because we not allowed to have any responsibilities.
[00:43:13] Also, if we die on our journey, we have this earring, uh, often out of gold. Uh, that we can pay off. So
[00:43:22] Daniel: how did you get the hole in your ear?
[00:43:25] Erik: Oh, don't know. It's nailed.
[00:43:27] Daniel: So it's actually traditional that you put the
[00:43:29] Hamish: ear
[00:43:29] Daniel: on the bump and, oh,
[00:43:30] Erik: yeah. This is my nail.
[00:43:32] Daniel: Oh, nice. I didn't know you have it.
[00:43:34] Erik: Hello? Yeah. So what,
[00:43:36] Daniel: it's handcrafted
[00:43:37] Hamish: too.
[00:43:37] Erik: Yeah. That's
[00:43:39] Hamish: the best camera in here. So that, that's what, um. Gave you an earring. Yeah.
[00:43:44] Erik: Mm-hmm. Yeah. That's
[00:43:44] Hamish: probably awesome.
[00:43:45] Erik: One.
[00:43:46] Matt: No,
[00:43:46] that's
[00:43:46] Erik: like crazy. And at least if you get nailed, you, you, you are connected to the table, you've got nailed. And then, uh, the carpenters ask you, Hey, do you want to do this journey?
[00:43:58] And you, you promise to be [00:44:00] honorable and so on. And then No. No. And um, after that you promised that you have to pay some beer. And, uh, you get free again. And so it's like also getting into this society.
[00:44:12] Matt: So we have a closing segment at the end of every episode. It's the Mindful Moment, sponsored by MEGT, Australia's largest building provider now,
[00:44:22] Hamish: all of the, this podcast,
[00:44:24] Matt: the whole podcast, this, this podcast, this whole podcast.
[00:44:27] I have written so many notes on my piece of paper right in front of me right now. Um.
[00:44:34] Daniel: Well, you should be able to get a second episode when he is in Melbourne.
[00:44:37] Matt: Done. Yeah. So I think if you're in an apprenticeship, make your TR one. Don't call it a trade. Call it a craft.
[00:44:45] Hamish: I love
[00:44:46] Daniel: that.
[00:44:46] Matt: Two, make it romantic. I think like there's, it's love.
[00:44:53] Love what you do and just own it and be passionate. But I think most of all, like there's a [00:45:00] clear. There's a clear line of you don't stop learning.
[00:45:03] Hamish: Yep. And if you're on one of my building sites, don't give yourself an earring.
[00:45:09] Matt: Yeah.
[00:45:09] Hamish: Thank
[00:45:09] Daniel: you. It's on you to do it now.
[00:45:10] Hamish: Yeah, it's that, that is, that is step outside the building, so I
[00:45:13] Matt: do it at least get the nail gun and pull it back and shoot from a distance.
[00:45:16] Um,
[00:45:17] Hamish: yeah. Eric, thank you so much for coming on. I've, this I really enjoyed. Thank you Dan as well. Dan, thanks for, uh, making this happen. Done. Yeah.
[00:45:24] Daniel: And I hope there's a, like a giveaway to everyone, like, because we all so focused on ourselves on the phones and just not really present. And like, I think like it's nice to hear Eric's story because it's exactly the opposite.
[00:45:37] He doesn't have a phone. If he sits, uh, in the kitchen for an hour or two, he just tries to find something to read or talks with people like he, you are forced to live in the present. And we just, me included, I mean, as guilty as, you know what, we just like sticking our phone and we lifting our phone whenever we can.
[00:45:53] We never have the chance. Like this morning you on the phone, I turned you around to watch the sunrise.
[00:45:57] Hamish: Yeah, that's well, yeah. Yeah. I was
[00:45:59] Daniel: actually
[00:45:59] Hamish: on the [00:46:00] phone
[00:46:00] Daniel: to someone. Yeah, of course. Because we just. Getting distracted or dive into other bits and pieces. So that's why I think like, I think it's something what I wanna learn of Eric, like live more in the present because it's getting lost and every time when I try to be president, it's good for myself and for myself.
[00:46:14] Matt: The Eric while in Australia. Summary. Keep hanging out with this guy. He's gonna teach you some pretty cool stuff. Um, he has a great network. The people that are here in Proclama right now, you're gonna learn some stuff as well that you'll be able to take home. Um, so I think it's gonna be two-way highway for both of you.
[00:46:30] Dan, you, uh, obviously very proud right now and in love. Um, but uh, Eric, there's a ton of stuff to learn. Um, thank you very
[00:46:38] Hamish: much. Thanks guys.